Forced Turning Point

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Red Ryder
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:29 am

I sustain you Graey!

You’ll be an excellent Bishop.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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græy
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by græy » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:30 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:29 am
I sustain you Graey!

You’ll be an excellent Bishop.
I'm glad to hear that. I still partially blame you for all of this mess! :D
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

Reuben
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by Reuben » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:32 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:29 am
I sustain you Graey!

You’ll be an excellent Bishop.
All in favor, please manifest.

✋
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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Not Buying It
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by Not Buying It » Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:05 am

Best of luck in the belly of the beast. Don't make any compromises you can't live with.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:52 am

Good luck Bishop graey! You have some good boundaries here, and hopefully they will be respected. I'm sure you'll be a great service-oriented bishop. Raising my right hand to you, and my middle finger to those who put you in this position.

If you have a question/concern you can't post about, feel free to PM me about anything.

We're all here for you!
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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fetchface
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by fetchface » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:14 am

For whatever reason, the church seems extremely reluctant to release bishops early. This gives you power.

As long as you steer clear of certain things, you can probably have wide latitude to run things as you see fit even if it is pretty different from the way things are typically run. If your SP doesn't like it, you can essentially dare him to release you and I bet he backs off.
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
My blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/

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wtfluff
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by wtfluff » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:21 am

Wow. Good luck Graey. (Sorry, I'm gonna keep calling you by your "first name.")

Delegate, delegate, delegate. And... You're still a volunteer, always keep that in mind.

I gotta ask: Are you going to start paying tithing again, or be the "bishop" who doesn't pay LD$-Inc. to work for them? (Feel free to tell me which cliff to jump off of if you don't want to answer that.)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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græy
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by græy » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:41 am

wtfluff wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:21 am
Wow. Good luck Graey. (Sorry, I'm gonna keep calling you by your "first name.")
Dropping the title will be first order of business among everyone who tries to call me bishop. Please continue to call me by my first name!
Delegate, delegate, delegate. And... You're still a volunteer, always keep that in mind.

I gotta ask: Are you going to start paying tithing again, or be the "bishop" who doesn't pay LD$-Inc. to work for them? (Feel free to tell me which cliff to jump off of if you don't want to answer that.)
I have no intention of resuming tithing payments. I may rethink fast offerings once I get a better handle on where that money is used and how much need is in the ward. If HQ catches wind and wants to release me, I'm A-OK with that.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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græy
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by græy » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:42 am

Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:52 am
Good luck Bishop graey! You have some good boundaries here, and hopefully they will be respected. I'm sure you'll be a great service-oriented bishop. Raising my right hand to you, and my middle finger to those who put you in this position.

If you have a question/concern you can't post about, feel free to PM me about anything.

We're all here for you!
I appreciate that Mormorrisey, thank you. Don't be surprised when I take you up on that offer.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Linked
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by Linked » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:43 pm

I'm sure this was a terribly difficult decision. It's interesting that the SP made it an opt out, rather than opt in, decision. I hope you at least feel a bit validated that you are a good guy based on the calling, you deserve that for all the time they will demand of you. Based on your posts here you will make a fantastic bishop and your ward is lucky to have you! Good luck navigating between the various expectations and your plans, though I'm sure you will do fine. Having some say in the decision making will hopefully let you avoid the worst things.

That was really touching about your dad. Sounds like this means a lot to him.
Whenever possible, I will request that parents be in the room to share the interview process with their children - the same goes for my counselors. No one-on-one interviews.
Good. Though you may need to make room for times that a kid needs to discuss something they aren't comfortable saying in front of their parents. Maybe have another trusted adult there in those cases. While you may not bring up sexual or other difficult/inappropriate topics, the kids may feel they need help there and not want their parents involved.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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wtfluff
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by wtfluff » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:11 pm

græy wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:41 am
I have no intention of resuming tithing payments. I may rethink fast offerings once I get a better handle on where that money is used and how much need is in the ward. If HQ catches wind and wants to release me, I'm A-OK with that.
I just did a little happy-dance for you.

Looking forward to the reports as to what the future holds.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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Red Ryder
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:42 pm

Linked wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:43 pm
Good. Though you may need to make room for times that a kid needs to discuss something they aren't comfortable saying in front of their parents. Maybe have another trusted adult there in those cases. While you may not bring up sexual or other difficult/inappropriate topics, the kids may feel they need help there and not want their parents involved.
Or just reassure the kid that they are worthy and that it’s not necessary to talk to any Bishop or leader about things of a sexual nature?

Refer them to talk with God. 😀
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Linked
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by Linked » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:49 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:42 pm
Or just reassure the kid that they are worthy and that it’s not necessary to talk to any Bishop or leader about things of a sexual nature?

Refer them to talk with God. 😀
Yes, that's great, but there will be kids who will feel they need an adult to talk to that isn't their parents. The church builds up bishops as the person to go to for these issues, and if you refuse them then they may feel abandoned. I would feel free to stop them before they get into anything inappropriate, but don't take away the support. Maybe have a spiel to start all interviews reiterating their inherent worthiness and the inappropriateness of discussing some topics with a bishop. Also, there are non-sexual topics which kids may want to discuss with a caring adult who is not their parents. And probably some cases where the kid needs someone to talk with about a parent. But you should probably always have another adult in there, maybe the kid could choose.

I was lucky to have a non-creepy bishop (at least to me) and I appreciated having a non-parent adult to discuss stuff with as a teenager.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

Wonderment
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by Wonderment » Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:40 pm

Graey, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and your journey with us ! That takes a lot of time and effort to write what is in your heart, and it's much appreciated. Sending lots of support and very best wishes to you and your family. Please keep us updated ! Your ward is so fortunate and will be very blessed to have your service and leadership. Wndr.

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Angel
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by Angel » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:15 pm

Linked wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:43 pm
Whenever possible, I will request that parents be in the room to share the interview process with their children - the same goes for my counselors. No one-on-one interviews.
Good. Though you may need to make room for times that a kid needs to discuss something they aren't comfortable saying in front of their parents. Maybe have another trusted adult there in those cases. While you may not bring up sexual or other difficult/inappropriate topics, the kids may feel they need help there and not want their parents involved.
I've always thought the bishop's DW would be a good choice for the 2nd adult in the room.

Best wishes to you - delegate delegate delegate (at least two people for every job). If anyone in the ward works in law enforcement or social services, ask them for their services and help in connecting people to the professional help they need. Not sure what training you will get, but start each interview letting everyone know you are a mandated reporter. Protect yourself. Best wishes!
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Cliff Notes
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by Cliff Notes » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:43 pm

I wish you the best but it is not going to work.

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DPRoberts
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by DPRoberts » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:24 pm

So it sounds to me like your deciding factors had to do with your immediate family relationships and some hoped for positives there. Those are the best reasons I can think of so I hope that works out for you. If those things become negatively impacted don't hesitate to go for the extra bedroom.

I don't remember if we have had an active bishop on NOM 2.0. I hope we hear from you often and can help as much as we can.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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slavereeno
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by slavereeno » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:08 pm

Thanks for sharing all of this Gray, like I said before, you will be a great bishop. I hope that you can also work things out with your DW, I look forward to your Mormon Stories interview in a few years.

Cnsl1
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by Cnsl1 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:06 am

I sustain you as well, Bishop G. Heh

Just in case you haven't thought of this, I'm pretty sure you'll have a one on one with the outgoing bishop who will appraise you of the members he's been working closely with. You'll find out quickly about the people having marital problems, financial problems, and porn problems.

You're going to have the difficult task of helping people through what they feel is sin. The experience of being a bishop is going to change you, no doubt. Hopefully it will give you a greater love for your fellow humans, and not a greater dislike for the church.

I've worried that I'd be put in a similar situation as you. I truly feel for you. My brother was a bishop during a time his disaffection had just started. He moved so didn't serve five years. He's completely out of the church now but has not resigned. I don't think he moved to get out of the calling, but it may have been a minor factor.

My disaffection really started strong while I was serving in a bishopric. I served several years for two bishops. I'm currently active in that I attend about 75% of the time, but do not believe most of what I used to believe.

I think you'll be a blessing to your ward and I hope the best for you and your family.

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Just This Guy
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Re: Forced Turning Point

Post by Just This Guy » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:41 am

Did you accept the calling? I may have missed that.

You could always make a game out of it. See how long you can go as bishop and never once mention Joseph Smith? Base you talks around the Bible and use quotes from sources outside Mormonism. See how long you can go before anyone notices.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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