MIL Innocently Indoctrinating my Kids

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Linked
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MIL Innocently Indoctrinating my Kids

Post by Linked » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:50 pm

We were visiting my in-laws yesterday and my MIL was talking to my son. For some reason she started telling him about church stuff. "When you go on a mission..." "The scriptures tell us that Jesus will come back, so we know that is true." "When Jesus comes back the devil won't be able to make people do bad things anymore." "I'm pretty sure Jesus will be returning sooner than later."

My MIL has no idea about my views on the church, so I'm not necessarily frustrated at her as she is not breaking any boundaries I've set, but I am frustrated. She is building this clean world full of expectation and obvious answers. But reality isn't nearly so clean. And DW and I have been careful not to put these expectations on him. And the answers don't really make sense.

It has been hard to not teach him these things because then he feels like he is behind in learning this stuff. But I was proud of his answers like, "well, by then humans will have colonized lots of planets, so how does that work?" He's already an anxious kid, and I am concerned about the anxiety he will feel if he thinks there's a devil out there controlling people, and trying to control him!
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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2bizE
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Re: MIL Innocently Indoctrinating my Kids

Post by 2bizE » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:15 pm

So, where do you start with helping your children and family?
Something I want to learn more about and teach my children is that Satan is not real. I don’t know anywhere in church requirements to at you must believe and have faith in Satan. He obviously was incorporated into the NT theology after the Zoroastrian influence during the Babylonian empire. If my children can grow up believe that Satan is made up, then it will help them better navigate the shame and guilt placed on them by Mormonism.
~2bizE

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wtfluff
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Re: MIL Innocently Indoctrinating my Kids

Post by wtfluff » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:19 pm

Jut tell your kid that Grandma is crazy. :mrgreen:


Ok... Maybe you can't do that. The thing is: My kids figured the "Kind-of-Crazy Grandma" part out pretty much on their own at a pretty young age. They would read through Grandma's snail-mail letters that she writes, and basically roll their eyes at all the semi-crazy borderline MORmON-Fundamentalist stuff that Grandma would write about giggling about "that" Grandma's letters.

The fact that he's asking her questions about things that seem much more logical to him than scary boogeymen, and invisible/absent deities returning to "save the world" says to me that he's on the right path, and you don't have too much to worry about.


2bizE wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:15 pm
I don’t know anywhere in church requirements to at you must believe and have faith in Satan.
The thing is 2bizE: Without Satan™, the entire MORmON "plan" falls apart.

Satan™ is literally just as important as the other three "personages" in the MORmON "godhead".


And... Well... That basically goes for all of "Christianity" also....

"The Holy Quaternity" is what I need to start calling the "godhead", just for fun. (If my fluffy brain can actually remember the word Quaternity.)





Edited for spelling and clarity.
Last edited by wtfluff on Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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moksha
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Re: MIL Innocently Indoctrinating my Kids

Post by moksha » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:31 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:19 pm
"The Holy Quaternity" is what I need to start calling the "godhead", just for fun. (If my fluffy brain can actually remember the word Quaternity.)
I follow you up to that point, but what number word would it be if you also added in Joseph Smith?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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wtfluff
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Re: MIL Innocently Indoctrinating my Kids

Post by wtfluff » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:38 pm

moksha wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:31 pm
wtfluff wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:19 pm
"The Holy Quaternity" is what I need to start calling the "godhead", just for fun. (If my fluffy brain can actually remember the word Quaternity.)
I follow you up to that point, but what number word would it be if you also added in Joseph Smith?
Quinternity of course!

How much MORmON holiness do you think gets added to The Holy Qiunternity by adding Ol' Joe, Dearest Penguin?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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moksha
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Re: MIL Innocently Indoctrinating my Kids

Post by moksha » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:05 am

wtfluff wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:38 pm
How much MORmON holiness do you think gets added to The Holy Qiunternity by adding Ol' Joe, Dearest Penguin?
How many Microsoft nanobots can be contained in a COVID injection? How much nonsense can be shoveled into a Sidney Powell legal brief?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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blazerb
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Re: MIL Innocently Indoctrinating my Kids

Post by blazerb » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:07 am

wtfluff wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:38 pm
Quinternity of course!

How much MORmON holiness do you think gets added to The Holy Qiunternity by adding Ol' Joe, Dearest Penguin?
If Joseph gets to add one of his wives, will he have a Sexternity?

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Re: MIL Innocently Indoctrinating my Kids

Post by Linked » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:41 am

2bizE wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:15 pm
So, where do you start with helping your children and family?
Something I want to learn more about and teach my children is that Satan is not real. I don’t know anywhere in church requirements to at you must believe and have faith in Satan. He obviously was incorporated into the NT theology after the Zoroastrian influence during the Babylonian empire. If my children can grow up believe that Satan is made up, then it will help them better navigate the shame and guilt placed on them by Mormonism.
Yes, the existence of the Boogey Man (aka Satan) is something I feel is unnecessary for my kids to deal with. I actually had this discussion a few weeks back where they were talking about the devil and asking questions. I initially responded with "The church says he's our spirit brother who disagreed with Jesus a long time ago." Then I worried about causing devil-related anxiety and followed up with, "But I don't think there's a devil that can influence anything." Then worried about DW feeling attacked and followed that with "what about you [DW]?" to give her a chance to share her side. It was all very awkward.
moksha wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:31 pm
wtfluff wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:19 pm
"The Holy Quaternity" is what I need to start calling the "godhead", just for fun. (If my fluffy brain can actually remember the word Quaternity.)
I follow you up to that point, but what number word would it be if you also added in Joseph Smith?
Maybe a Pentagram?
blazerb wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:07 am
wtfluff wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:38 pm
Quinternity of course!

How much MORmON holiness do you think gets added to The Holy Qiunternity by adding Ol' Joe, Dearest Penguin?
If Joseph gets to add one of his wives, will he have a Sexternity?
Hahaha, he sure hopes so!
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: MIL Innocently Indoctrinating my Kids

Post by græy » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:14 am

Linked wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:50 pm
He's already an anxious kid, and I am concerned about the anxiety he will feel if he thinks there's a devil out there controlling people, and trying to control him!
I share this concern too. One of our kids (10yo) seems to suffer from anxiety about a lot of things. One day DW and I were talking about old Luci and I asked her what she thought it felt like to a small child to tell them there is a nearly omnipotent, all-knowing, invisible, supernatural being hell-bent on their destruction following them around and reading their thoughts 24/7 just looking for any chink in their personal armor. She just stared at me and didn't really answer.

I'll tell you how that feels, its scary! It also happens to be totally unnecessary. There is enough crap to deal with in life, you don't have to worry about escaping from an invisible boogey-man on top of it all.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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wtfluff
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Re: MIL Innocently Indoctrinating my Kids

Post by wtfluff » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:50 am

blazerb wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:07 am
wtfluff wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:38 pm
Quinternity of course!
How much MORmON holiness do you think gets added to The Holy Qiunternity by adding Ol' Joe, Dearest Penguin?
If Joseph gets to add one of his wives, will he have a Sexternity?
Sorry, but after putting entirely too much thought into this, I think we're all forgetting where females belong in MORmON heirarchy: Helpmeets. Joseph can have all the Queens and Priestesses he wants, but they have no part whatsoever in any sort of "#-inity." They're all too sacred to talk about, remember?

And after typing that out, I'm absolutely ecstatic that this is all a huge pile of made-up bull-sh@t.

Sorry/not sorry for the threadjack Linked... :P
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

Dr. Licious
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Re: MIL Innocently Indoctrinating my Kids

Post by Dr. Licious » Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:26 pm

I had a situation similar to yours recently. My very TBM MIL was visiting and somehow sucked me into a convo about the church's $100 billion fund. I raised my concerns, and she said in front of my children, "Well, you've always been rebellious." (Raised mormon, seminary, RM, EQP, etc. but I don't shy away about progressive issues) I ended the discussion there.

Later that day she asked my wife if she could do a Come Follow Me lesson for our family. Well, the lesson was about strict obedience to the gospel and the prophet. She asked my kids in the lesson, "Isn't it great that you have such examples of obedient priesthood holders in your life, like your GRANDFATHER?" I couldn't believe it. In her opinion, their own father was not worthy to be called a good example!!! I'm a pretty calm guy, but I got hot quick, and had to leave the room.

Behind closed doors I told my wife I wanted her mother gone and she wasn't welcome back ever again... Well, I quickly cooled off and dropped it (she's by and large a great MIL). My wife was completely on my side, thank goodness.

Anyway, she had no clue how much her indoctrinating lesson deeply hurt me, and confused my children.

Keewon
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Re: MIL Innocently Indoctrinating my Kids

Post by Keewon » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:43 pm

2bizE wrote:Something I want to learn more about and teach my children is that Satan is not real.
My dad explained that Satan was like Santa- he's your dad.

I guess he would know on both counts...

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Linked
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Re: MIL Innocently Indoctrinating my Kids

Post by Linked » Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:30 am

Dr. Licious wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:26 pm
I had a situation similar to yours recently. My very TBM MIL was visiting and somehow sucked me into a convo about the church's $100 billion fund. I raised my concerns, and she said in front of my children, "Well, you've always been rebellious." (Raised mormon, seminary, RM, EQP, etc. but I don't shy away about progressive issues) I ended the discussion there.

Later that day she asked my wife if she could do a Come Follow Me lesson for our family. Well, the lesson was about strict obedience to the gospel and the prophet. She asked my kids in the lesson, "Isn't it great that you have such examples of obedient priesthood holders in your life, like your GRANDFATHER?" I couldn't believe it. In her opinion, their own father was not worthy to be called a good example!!! I'm a pretty calm guy, but I got hot quick, and had to leave the room.

Behind closed doors I told my wife I wanted her mother gone and she wasn't welcome back ever again... Well, I quickly cooled off and dropped it (she's by and large a great MIL). My wife was completely on my side, thank goodness.

Anyway, she had no clue how much her indoctrinating lesson deeply hurt me, and confused my children.
Welcome to NOM Dr. Licious! Sorry for the late reply, I missed this post when you initially made it.

That is very inappropriate of your MIL to openly undermine your place as your kid's Dad. Did you or your wife discuss it with her at all? Sorry you went through that. It's good your wife had your back.

It sounds like your MIL has some negative views of you that she doesn't even realize are terribly hurtful. I think this is a thing for people who are totally surrounded by other mormons. Their view that someone who is not orthodox is not a good example and must be a rebellious person just exudes from them.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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