The fall of Communism/Mormonism

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2bizE
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The fall of Communism/Mormonism

Post by 2bizE » Sat May 08, 2021 8:07 am

I had a dream last night that I was in Berlin Germany and watching people smashing at the Berlin Wall until it eventually fell. Reflecting this morning on this experience....I was not in Berlin when it really happened, but I distinctly remember watching it happen on TV. How emotional it was to see communism fall and the people of East Germany and the Soviet block take their freedom from their oppressors.
It seemed like it all happened so quickly and felt unexpected.
Do you think the fall of Mormonism will happen in a similar way?
~2bizE

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1smartdodog
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Re: The fall of Communism/Mormonism

Post by 1smartdodog » Sat May 08, 2021 9:42 am

With 130 billion in the bank they can survive for a ling time


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Red Ryder
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Re: The fall of Communism/Mormonism

Post by Red Ryder » Sat May 08, 2021 9:58 am

1smartdodog wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:42 am
With 130 billion in the bank they can survive for a ling time.
Agreed.

The church ideology can fade but the organization will perpetuate forever. As long as they continue to build temples, hold no audience conferences, and self report their numbers, the church will never fail.

A Potemkin village of sorts.
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“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

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Corsair
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Re: The fall of Communism/Mormonism

Post by Corsair » Sat May 08, 2021 12:38 pm

1smartdodog wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:42 am
With 130 billion in the bank they can survive for a ling time
The mathematics of the situation is even crazier. Suppose that the LDS church had 8 billion members as if it was virtually universal. If it still had "only" a measly 130 billion dollars then it would be on verge of utter financial ruin. The budget per capita would be a mere $16 per person which is a disaster. Cash reserves would need to be in the tens of trillions to manage an organization of that size.

The opposite scenario is have 130 billion dollars with a steadily declining population of around 3 million actually active members. The church then has (130 billion / 3 million) $43,000 per member which is enough to to have a large, professional clergy and well-maintained churches and administration offices. This is what we actually see except that they have a small professional clergy.

The LDS church is in the unusual position that it will be ironically, but financially, more stable as membership declines.

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2bizE
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Re: The fall of Communism/Mormonism

Post by 2bizE » Sat May 08, 2021 6:40 pm

I don’t anticipate the membership numbers to decrease rapidly, but the inactive members to increase rapidly. I believe the $130 billion will only be used to preserve the institution and none of it will be used to ease the suffering of members. I’m not sure that have a lot of money can prevent the collapse. Just as the church claimed in the 1950s- 1990s growth was a stone cut out of a mountain rolling and picking up speed, it appears that growth has slowed. We all knows that 75-90% of new convert baptisms become inactive within 5 years, but almost all stay on the membership rolls of the church. It is really the long-time members (boomers) and Gen X that are keeping the activity rates where they were. Just like when Covid hit, attendance dropped, I foresee a time when the boomers are passing away heavily that Gen exers will just stop attending. What will the church do with its billions if nobody is attending? Sure, it will have money to maintain buildings and temples, but if few are attending, then what?
~2bizE

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blazerb
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Re: The fall of Communism/Mormonism

Post by blazerb » Sat May 08, 2021 7:15 pm

2bizE wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 6:40 pm
What will the church do with its billions if nobody is attending? Sure, it will have money to maintain buildings and temples, but if few are attending, then what?
The Oneida community started making silverware. Maybe it just kept making silverware. I don't know the history very well.

I could imagine a time when there will be a super-secret hedge fund with holdings in stocks and real estate worth trillions that just keeps growing in value while employing a core group with lucrative jobs but not doing much else.

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Palerider
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Re: The fall of Communism/Mormonism

Post by Palerider » Sat May 08, 2021 8:05 pm

When an entity becomes good at making money and their original mission of saving souls seems to fade maybe they'll just become another investment firm like J.P. Morgan or Lehman Bros. giving people advice on where to put their money.

Just think of all those commissions they'll be collecting because Zion Corp is a name you can trust.

"We make the desert bloom" ;)
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"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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DPRoberts
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Re: The fall of Communism/Mormonism

Post by DPRoberts » Sat May 08, 2021 10:35 pm

One thing companies with a large war chest do is to look to grow by acquiring other companies. I had never considered that happening in a religious context but that is what appears to be happening with Scientology and the Nation of Islam. Which is incredibly bizarre considering how Nation of Islam was all about independence from white people, but now they are letting whites teach them Scientology. This strongly suggests a financial motive with N of I needing the financial abilities of Scientology.

So why couldn't LD$ Inc. grow through acquisition? They used to convert whole congregations in the earliest days. What if LD$ Inc could pick up and rescue some religious group on the verge of bankruptcy on the condition of having access to teach the parishioners a Mormonized Christianity. This seems like fantasy but for the fact that Scientology seems to be doing it.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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moksha
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Re: The fall of Communism/Mormonism

Post by moksha » Sat May 08, 2021 11:40 pm

blazerb wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 7:15 pm
The Oneida community started making silverware.
The Amana community made refrigerators and radar ranges (microwave ovens). I imagine the Church will work on enlarging their financial empire and perhaps undertake the building of a space ark.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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deacon blues
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Re: The fall of Communism/Mormonism

Post by deacon blues » Sun May 09, 2021 9:25 am

2bizE wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:07 am
I had a dream last night that I was in Berlin Germany and watching people smashing at the Berlin Wall until it eventually fell. Reflecting this morning on this experience....I was not in Berlin when it really happened, but I distinctly remember watching it happen on TV. How emotional it was to see communism fall and the people of East Germany and the Soviet block take their freedom from their oppressors.
It seemed like it all happened so quickly and felt unexpected.
Do you think the fall of Mormonism will happen in a similar way?
If Jesus Christ came back and said it was false it would collapse. :lol:
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

lostinmiddlemormonism
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Re: The fall of Communism/Mormonism

Post by lostinmiddlemormonism » Sun May 09, 2021 4:35 pm

moksha wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 11:40 pm
blazerb wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 7:15 pm
The Oneida community started making silverware.
The Amana community made refrigerators and radar ranges (microwave ovens). I imagine the Church will work on enlarging their financial empire and perhaps undertake the building of a space ark.
If we were actively engaged in building a space ark, I might regain interest in the so called church....

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wtfluff
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Re: The fall of Communism/Mormonism

Post by wtfluff » Sun May 09, 2021 5:46 pm

lostinmiddlemormonism wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:35 pm
moksha wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 11:40 pm
blazerb wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 7:15 pm
The Oneida community started making silverware.
The Amana community made refrigerators and radar ranges (microwave ovens). I imagine the Church will work on enlarging their financial empire and perhaps undertake the building of a space ark.
If we were actively engaged in building a space ark, I might regain interest in the so called church....
Even if the space "ark" is being built to rendezvous with the space "ship" hiding in the tail of the Comet Hale-Bop?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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Just This Guy
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Re: The fall of Communism/Mormonism

Post by Just This Guy » Mon May 10, 2021 6:05 am

wtfluff wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:46 pm
lostinmiddlemormonism wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:35 pm
moksha wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 11:40 pm

The Amana community made refrigerators and radar ranges (microwave ovens). I imagine the Church will work on enlarging their financial empire and perhaps undertake the building of a space ark.
If we were actively engaged in building a space ark, I might regain interest in the so called church....
Even if the space "ark" is being built to rendezvous with the space "ship" hiding in the tail of the Comet Hale-Bop?
The question is can it be hijacked to be used as a missile against Ceres?
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

lostinmiddlemormonism
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Re: The fall of Communism/Mormonism

Post by lostinmiddlemormonism » Mon May 10, 2021 8:55 am

The church of the latter-day kolobian space ark. It has a good ring to it. Jeebus visited other sheep you know...even on other planets. That is where the other tribes of Isreal are....on other planets that receive their light from Kolob.

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