Anyone else feel trapped?

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Red Ryder
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Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by Red Ryder » Mon May 24, 2021 11:10 pm

Tonight I’m feeling trapped in Mormonism.

No matter how much I disbelieve and disconnect from the church, I’m still connected by my spouses belief and participation. I’m still connected by my parent’s belief and connection. Feeling like this dynamic will never go away is causing me to feel trapped and anxious.

When does it end? How do you cope?
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jfro18
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by jfro18 » Tue May 25, 2021 5:00 am

Yep.

When I stopped going I felt that weight pretty quickly, and I think DW wearing garments was that daily reminder that even though I got out, it was still going to be with me forever.

I don't think it ends until it does, which for some of us will be eventually if the believing spouse has that moment that jolts them loose, but otherwise it will always have a grip on us.

After I stopped going it always bothered me - especially garments and being around in-laws, but once we had a kid it really bothered me because I saw how quickly the indoctrination started. That's when I realized you never really escape unless you get out together, and in a lot of our cases here that has not been the case, and my coping is basically venting on here since I don't really have anyone I can talk to in person about church stuff... it sucks.

I feel like i need to hold demonstrations in SLC this summer to get garments removed permanently a la Sam Young style demonstrations! :lol:
Last edited by jfro18 on Tue May 25, 2021 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LostGirl
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by LostGirl » Tue May 25, 2021 5:02 am

I've been feeling this so much lately. That I will never be free of it. I don't know how to just accept this and stop feeling stuck in limbo.

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wtfluff
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by wtfluff » Tue May 25, 2021 6:54 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 11:10 pm
When does it end? How do you cope?
For me, I'm pretty sure the trapped part of this "ends" when I die.

I cope by spending way too much time trying to untie the knots that MORmONism embedded in my brain.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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alas
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by alas » Tue May 25, 2021 8:05 am

Not only are we trapped in Mormonism because of our spouse, we have bits and pieces inside of us that are next to impossible to get out. For example, the other day, I opened a new bottle of wine for cooking. I am still learning what kinds go good with what food, and how to get the flavor just right, by sautéing onions, celery, and garlic. We really didn’t like the red wine with beef, so I bought a pink. Anyway, as part of learning to cook with it, I wondered just how sweet it was. So, I started to taste it straight from the bottle, rather than all the alcohol cooked out. And the guilt hit, and I quickly hid the fact that I had tasted it from my husband. I am about 15 years out of the church and about 50 from ever believing it was any more than stuff Joseph made up, and still the guilt for a small taste of wine is overwhelming. I drink coffee and that isn’t too bad of an issue. But then I grew up with a lot of the grandparent generation who were coffee drinkers just because they were born and raised when coffee was not a big deal and there was more emphasis on the not eating meat than there was on coffee. But then those same grandparents were children of prohibition and very very anti alcohol, to the point that my grandma and my husband’s grandma wouldn’t use vanilla extract because it had a small amount of alcohol, and so putting vanilla in cookies, where the alcohol would cook, out was still against the WoW, but she drank coffee. So, for me, alcohol being a terrible sin, but coffee not so much, is just part of the Mormon culture.

I am to the point that I don’t want or need to get my husband out. It is just part of who he is. Like my one daughter is deeply into costuming. I mean, her costumes have been in movies. But she doesn’t even break even making them when she sells them. Making them is strictly expensive hobby. To me it is stupid, but that is who she is. Her Star Wars costuming has led to personally friendships with names y’all would recognize. My other kids have equally expensive and odd hobbies. But that is who they are and I long ago stopped trying to talk sense into them. So, now I just enjoy their individual form of crazy.

The difference is that I still have that part of me that used to be Mormon, so it is hard to see Mormonism as equal to the Medieval reenactment cult my daughter got into that took up her whole life. So, I still feel defensive about the Mormon crazy. I am still stomping it out in me, so it is hard not to try to stop it out in my husband. I have to remind myself that Mormonism is his thing. No different than any other crazy hobby that absorbs one’s whole life.

It could be worse. He could be into Qanan or a Trumpist or a proud boy. No, I will be glad that his crazy is Mormonism instead of some other cult.

stuck
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by stuck » Tue May 25, 2021 8:24 am

RR,

Sorry your feeling this way. I hope you are able to cope with this. I wonder if meditation would help. I really don't know too much about this, but I think I would like to look into it.

Also, I was just thinking this morning about my funeral. Perhaps this is where we can do something on our own terms. Instead of having it at a Mormon church, we could have it at a funeral home or something and could have it pre-planned so we know what is said or whatever. Have you guys contemplated this?

Of course we wouldn't want our lives to come to an end pre-maturely. I think divorce is definitely better than suicide. But this might be a way we could do something on our own terms instead of having the church be involved.

Cnsl1
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by Cnsl1 » Tue May 25, 2021 8:40 am

I like that, Alas.

Of all the crazies you can be, Mormonism isn't nearly the worst. I need to remember that when I get frustrated with DW for letting unnecessary guilt bring her anxiety, or putting her garments back on for a few days, or suggesting that one DD might change her lifestyle--a lifestyle that by most accounts would be viewed favorably by parents--hard working, kind, liberal, big defender of LGBTQ, and vegetarian, but who lives with BF (for mostly economical reasons), and has piercings and wants a tattoo. If only the world had more young people so honest and kind and loving and accepting and hard working.

And if only the worst issues in the world were all these annoying, loving, kind Mormons.

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deacon blues
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by deacon blues » Tue May 25, 2021 9:35 am

alas wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 8:05 am
Not only are we trapped in Mormonism because of our spouse, we have bits and pieces inside of us that are next to impossible to get out. For example, the other day, I opened a new bottle of wine for cooking. I am still learning what kinds go good with what food, and how to get the flavor just right, by sautéing onions, celery, and garlic. We really didn’t like the red wine with beef, so I bought a pink. Anyway, as part of learning to cook with it, I wondered just how sweet it was. So, I started to taste it straight from the bottle, rather than all the alcohol cooked out. And the guilt hit, and I quickly hid the fact that I had tasted it from my husband. I am about 15 years out of the church and about 50 from ever believing it was any more than stuff Joseph made up, and still the guilt for a small taste of wine is overwhelming. I drink coffee and that isn’t too bad of an issue. But then I grew up with a lot of the grandparent generation who were coffee drinkers just because they were born and raised when coffee was not a big deal and there was more emphasis on the not eating meat than there was on coffee. But then those same grandparents were children of prohibition and very very anti alcohol, to the point that my grandma and my husband’s grandma wouldn’t use vanilla extract because it had a small amount of alcohol, and so putting vanilla in cookies, where the alcohol would cook, out was still against the WoW, but she drank coffee. So, for me, alcohol being a terrible sin, but coffee not so much, is just part of the Mormon culture.

I am to the point that I don’t want or need to get my husband out. It is just part of who he is. Like my one daughter is deeply into costuming. I mean, her costumes have been in movies. But she doesn’t even break even making them when she sells them. Making them is strictly expensive hobby. To me it is stupid, but that is who she is. Her Star Wars costuming has led to personally friendships with names y’all would recognize. My other kids have equally expensive and odd hobbies. But that is who they are and I long ago stopped trying to talk sense into them. So, now I just enjoy their individual form of crazy.

The difference is that I still have that part of me that used to be Mormon, so it is hard to see Mormonism as equal to the Medieval reenactment cult my daughter got into that took up her whole life. So, I still feel defensive about the Mormon crazy. I am still stomping it out in me, so it is hard not to try to stop it out in my husband. I have to remind myself that Mormonism is his thing. No different than any other crazy hobby that absorbs one’s whole life.

It could be worse. He could be into Qanan or a Trumpist or a proud boy. No, I will be glad that his crazy is Mormonism instead of some other cult.
I think my wife is pretty good at not making me feel trapped. I don't feel like have to go to Church, although I do once in a while. It helps that two of her sons are pretty much out, and it might be worse if I drank or loved porn. That being said, my wife and I both detest Trump, and it is fun to bring him up to have something we to agree on. We agree on a lot else but not everything. I love jazz and it annoys her although she will put up with it once in a while if I'm in the mood. Things could be worse. At our age I'm thankful for our health.
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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Linked
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by Linked » Tue May 25, 2021 10:34 am

I have definitely been there RR, but I'm not there today. I've got enough distance from the church and enough other stuff in my life to have the other stuff on my mind. The things that have been particularly helpful recently are:

- An agreement with my DW to attend sacrament meeting together as a family twice a month, and stay home together the other Sundays
- Having and focusing on non-church hobbies with family members
- A full summer schedule
- Getting some validation from my parents and DW that they think I'm a good guy
- Therapy, including most recently the book "Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life"
alas wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 8:05 am
I am to the point that I don’t want or need to get my husband out. It is just part of who he is. Like my one daughter is deeply into costuming. I mean, her costumes have been in movies. But she doesn’t even break even making them when she sells them. Making them is strictly expensive hobby. To me it is stupid, but that is who she is. Her Star Wars costuming has led to personally friendships with names y’all would recognize. My other kids have equally expensive and odd hobbies. But that is who they are and I long ago stopped trying to talk sense into them. So, now I just enjoy their individual form of crazy.

The difference is that I still have that part of me that used to be Mormon, so it is hard to see Mormonism as equal to the Medieval reenactment cult my daughter got into that took up her whole life. So, I still feel defensive about the Mormon crazy. I am still stomping it out in me, so it is hard not to try to stop it out in my husband. I have to remind myself that Mormonism is his thing. No different than any other crazy hobby that absorbs one’s whole life.

It could be worse. He could be into Qanan or a Trumpist or a proud boy. No, I will be glad that his crazy is Mormonism instead of some other cult.
There are a couple things in here that I think are really important.

First, mormonism is damaging to many, and if you are on the other side of belief then you probably feel like it hurt you in some way(sssss). So being exposed to mormonism is going to be more difficult than being exposed to something that is less personal to you. Hopefully healing can lessen that difference.

Second, your DH's version of mormonism doesn't seem to include most of the damaging stuff. He is a good man who throws away the bad parts. His "mormon crazy" is mostly harmless. My DW is similar, she embraces the messages of "be kind" and throws away the messages of "protect predators", "cut doubters out of your life", and "tithing before feeding your family". In some ways it is frustrating that she can so easily ignore those messages because they are a core part of the church's message and dealing with it might get her to agree with me. But on the other hand, it is a huge credit to her (and your DH) that they are their good selves in spite of their ties to the church. And I've had to work on not projecting my frustration with the bad parts of the church onto her, and seeing her as her good self and not a minion of RMN.

For someone who's spouse embraces the damaging stuff it is harder.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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2bizE
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by 2bizE » Tue May 25, 2021 11:55 am

~2bizE

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2bizE
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by 2bizE » Tue May 25, 2021 1:25 pm

I feel so trapped. I just want to break free of Mormonism. I’m not sure how to navigate this. The pandemic has been so helpful, but with things opening back up, the anxiety is increasing.
I have considered moving to Alaska, Vermont, Siberia...buying a sailboat, learning to sail, and sail away leaving Mormonism behind...
~2bizE

Mackman
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by Mackman » Tue May 25, 2021 2:01 pm

I cannot express how trapped I feel !!! I literally have tried everything to get my wifes head out of the sand. She will not budge and I have pretty much given up on her until she shows some sign of comming around. I have tried to cope by doing my own thing i.e. wearing jeans & golf shirt to church, not speaking in church. I did achieve a small victory in that I purchased a coffee maker and have been making and drinking coffee for about a month now !!!! Thank God for small victories!!! Somedays are better than.others today was not such a good day . We had a heated discussion about me wanting to attend a different church you can imagine how that went. This site and reddit are the only things that keep me sane .

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by Mormorrisey » Tue May 25, 2021 3:33 pm

alas wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 8:05 am

It could be worse. He could be into Qanan or a Trumpist or a proud boy. No, I will be glad that his crazy is Mormonism instead of some other cult.
That's where I am with Sis M's Mormonism. It could be worse. I'm also with Csnl1, that it makes me mad to see her paralyzed with anxiety because of her ties to Mormonism. But am I trapped? To some degree. I feel angry at times that I can't just walk away, yet also very apathetic at times, and generally I'm pleased with my level of participation and my kids level of participation. And I've largely made my peace with Sis M's dogmatic Mormonism, that none of the rest of us are buying into. I think that ratio of dogmatic TBM thinking vs NOM thinking in my home brings me a lot of peace, even though I'm sure it raises the anxiety level of the missus. And frankly, I was a liberal, non-church broke member most of my life, so that helps my transition to a pretty lame Mormon.

But I also feel that the Mormons in my immediate bubble are trapped with ME. I think it was Corsair who likened his situation to the movie Watchmen and the character Rorschach, who, while in jail, proclaimed proudly that he wasn't locked in with the rest of the prisoners, they were locked in with HIM. And that's how I feel when I participate in high council and other church meetings. I either say nothing, which is my usual fallback position, and when I do say something, I tend to speak against the conventional wisdom of the group. I'm sure there are dudes who can't stand the fact that I'm on the high council the way I am, and they way I think, and they don't know what to do about it. Perhaps too it's where I live, where there is not a lot of evidence of Mormon culture until I go to church. It's not constantly all around me, like must be for those who live in Idaho, Utah or Arizona. So that must suck to live in those places, and they might not have the freedom of expression that I do.

But I have nothing but empathy for those who feel trapped. Because I feel that way too at times.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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alas
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by alas » Tue May 25, 2021 6:06 pm

Linked wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 10:34 am
First, mormonism is damaging to many, and if you are on the other side of belief then you probably feel like it hurt you in some way(sssss). So being exposed to mormonism is going to be more difficult than being exposed to something that is less personal to you. Hopefully healing can lessen that difference.

Second, your DH's version of mormonism doesn't seem to include most of the damaging stuff. He is a good man who throws away the bad parts. His "mormon crazy" is mostly harmless. My DW is similar, she embraces the messages of "be kind" and throws away the messages of "protect predators", "cut doubters out of your life", and "tithing before feeding your family". In some ways it is frustrating that she can so easily ignore those messages because they are a core part of the church's message and dealing with it might get her to agree with me. But on the other hand, it is a huge credit to her (and your DH) that they are their good selves in spite of their ties to the church. And I've had to work on not projecting my frustration with the bad parts of the church onto her, and seeing her as her good self and not a minion of RMN.

For someone who's spouse embraces the damaging stuff it is harder.
These are good points. I have more problems with my grandchildren (my son’s kids) being raised Mormon than I do with my husband being Mormon because the church could still hurt them, while he is kind of past the ways the church can be harmful. I even worry about my son getting burned out by too many big callings. My DIL is becoming a feminist and reading all kinds of “apostate” literature. I was getting rid of a whole bunch of books and asked all my children if they wanted a long list. She took all my exMo books and I about fell off my chair. So, that makes all but one of my kids and their spouses pretty much out, so I am sure I am less trapped than most and most of my family is safe from the kind of harm the church causes.

I have had to struggle with “if you cared about me you would leave the church because of how much it hurt me.” I have to still remind myself that my issues are not his issues, and that he does understand much about how the church hurt me, which is why he has been so accepting of me leaving.

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jfro18
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by jfro18 » Tue May 25, 2021 6:14 pm

I feel trapped in the sense that I left ~15 years ago but was too afraid to even look until 3 years ago... so I carry a lot of baggage because of fear from both my wife and her family. They moved across the country because my wife and I were dating and I didn't join the church (and she didn't go to BYU), so that has always weighed on me.

Now I feel trapped because with COVID restrictions falling, DW wants our kid back in church which really bothers me. I am at a point where I can accept that DW is never going to change (even after she asked me to do a massive overview project only to say she won't read it), but I have a problem teaching our kid about things she can't talk about.

So that's why I feel like it will always be hanging over my head... and even with my kid we have worked it out so I can talk to him about why I don't believe each week, but it's going to be a nightmare if I am half as certain in my talk with him as the church is in primary. It sucks and it just won't go away, so I either push and risk divorce or I retreat and watch my already anxious kid have to obey/live up to a church that can be harmful to many kids for a variety of reasons.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by Red Ryder » Tue May 25, 2021 8:55 pm

OK peeps, nice comments. I like the crazy could always be worse mantra. It could be worse.

However, I’m feeling trapped because my future will always contain Mormonism. A family member is getting married later this year. The conversations have been over the top married this and temple that, and blah blah blah. I’m thinking slow your roll, you’ve only known each other 82 days!!! Then this brings to mind the struggles and comparison to my oldest who is inactive at best and possibly an unbeliever worst case scenario (for mom).

I admit, I still struggle with the lack of structure for my kids as they pursue other alternatives then the church course. Alas, you’re right. There’s still parts of Mormonism entrained in our brain. I forget that my kids are successful in different ways and the thought they may pursue life outside the church Makes me smile. But deep down I’m comparing them to their TBM counterparts and feeling shame and guilt. I’m going to stop doing that and remember they won’t have to get married at 19 and wear funny underwear. Or serve a mission and spend Tuesday nights visiting the inactive.

I thing the stuck feeling stems from the never ending comparison to the church standard way of living. It’s all prescribed from the time we are born until the time we die. Yet I’ve stepped off the escalator and chose to wander off and see what the big world outside looks like.

So shame on me for not stopping and looking ahead to the future and focusing on the past and the prescribed way. Shame on me for comparing my kids to the TBM path. Shame on me for getting upset at silly underwear, dumb talks, and the hamster wheel of a Mormon checklist.

The world is full of new experiences that I need to seek after. I need to choose to live in the moment and focus on the now. Not an eternal reward that could be the imaginations of an 1800’s conman!

Live now! Laugh now! For tomorrow may never come and the future will always be unknown! I can live with that.

Thanks Nommies for understanding.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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Corsair
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by Corsair » Tue May 25, 2021 11:45 pm

Let me be the weirdo who will paraphrase Rorshach from "Watchmen" and say that I'm not trapped in here with the church. The church is trapped in here with me. Studying the LDS church has become really a drag as it has so little to grab my attention. Their Sunday School lessons are hardly better than the missionary discussions we used to push through. People join the church because they find a sympathetic community, not because the theology is compelling or fascinating.

The LDS church still wants my time and devotion. But they have lost 75% of my children and I know of a number of YM in my ward who skipped a mission after I told them the alternatives that are available. After the abysmal numbers on the statistics report last month they need everyone they can and I almost feel bad for them.

I empathize with all of your lovely forum members, but do give some thought to the discussions among ward members in bishopric, PEC, and ward council meetings as they vainly strive to find ways to engage you. Their tactics have not improved and they are trapped by guilt and social pressure and not just with a faithful spouse and family like all of us. I recognize that if my attempts to conjure sympathy for the church sounds ironic and possibly callous to the real emotional turmoil many of you are feeling. The LDS church is largely out of ideas and we only have to manage our family relationships which would still be a going concern even if we were faithful. It's simply a different set of problems to deal with.

Good luck, my dear NOM ward members.

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moksha
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by moksha » Wed May 26, 2021 6:01 am

alas wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 8:05 am
It could be worse. He could be into Qanan or a Trumpist or a proud boy. No, I will be glad that his crazy is Mormonism instead of some other cult.
Excellent point. There are more dangerous cults as your list demonstrates. Unfortunately, some of these groups seem to be on the verge of melding into something more virulent, at least in America.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Cnsl1
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Re: Anyone else feel trapped?

Post by Cnsl1 » Fri May 28, 2021 1:47 am

Corsair wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 11:45 pm
People join the church because they find a sympathetic community, not because the theology is compelling or fascinating.
Amen, brother.

And I think people stay for the same reason

I am sure my wife wants to stay involved for that reason.

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