Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

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Hagoth
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Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by Hagoth » Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:28 am

This will be kinda long, but some will find it interesting.

I spent the last two days at The Divine Assembly’s Solstice Revival in the desert outside of Grantsville, Ut. In case you’re not familiar with it, The Divine Assembly is a church created by Mormon and former Republican Utah state Senator Steve Urquhart that uses psilocybin mushrooms as its sacrament.

For me, the most illuminating part was a sit-down session with Urquhart where he talked about the origin and purposes of TDA. The religion’s only tenets are that it is possible to connect with The Divine, that there is no correct definition of The Divine, and that magic mushrooms are the church's preferred way of making that connection. He explained how the church is built on the laws (thanks in part to the LDS legal/political machine protecting religious freedoms, including those of the of the peyote churches) that protect a religion’s right to use a psychedelic substance as a sacrament provided they are sincere and safe. The Supreme Court made a very strong ruling on this question. If you are a member of this church you are legally protected. It takes about 10 seconds to become a member and is done entirely online. Of the hundreds of attendees only about 30 showed up for this discussion. My son, who flew in from NYC to join me, observed, “there are two things going on here. There are about 30 people who actually get it, and the rest are just here for a party.”

That was a very astute observation. There were, in fact, three things going on there. From the outside it looked like a desperate attempt to recreate Burning Man. The next layer down was a lot of mystical, magical, new age stuff, and then at the core were the recovering Mormons and similar seekers exploring new paths to spirituality. I had some very interesting and unexpected experiences there. One of them was when a shaman-ish guy gave me a little ceremony that culminated with him blowing Hape, a substance that I had never even heard of, up my nostrils! And I liked it!

The sacrament was easily available for anyone who wanted it and there were meditation/breathing ceremonies to help guide people through the experience. My camping neighbor was a 70-ish-year-old woman who was recovering from Baptist trauma. She drove up from Santa Fe with her daughter to have her first psychedelic experience. And it was a good one. She asked me to teach her how to grow her own.

Overall it was a very enlightening and pleasant time, despite the 100 degree temperature and too much electronic music. We camped the first night but packed up and left late on the second night because the ravers’ music was so damn loud. If they do it again I really hope they tone down the noisy dance party aspect (although I have no complaints about the topless dancing). Oh, and they should definitely keep the machine that belches 30-foot pillars of fire. I loved that.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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2bizE
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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by 2bizE » Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:57 pm

How were the mushrooms?
~2bizE

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Angel
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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by Angel » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:11 am

Sounds like someone has been following Ram Dass. Connecting "spiritual feelings" to chemistry is an important step in understanding human chemistry I think. Be careful...
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by 1smartdodog » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:53 am

Whoever or whatever the Divine is sure makes it hard to be enlightened. Every one wants you to jump through hoops to get connected. Be nice to have a god who just would be willing to come have a chat with you. All the hype and drug induced euphoria is not my preference.


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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by Linked » Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:22 pm

How was your experience? Any stories or takeaways from your mushroom-induced trip that you would be willing to share here?

I am curious if this is a viable path to finding meaning post-mormon belief and would love to hear how it went for you. What was your path from believing mormon to deciding to use mushrooms?
Last edited by Linked on Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by Hagoth » Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:24 pm

Angel wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:11 am
Sounds like someone has been following Ram Dass. Connecting "spiritual feelings" to chemistry is an important step in understanding human chemistry I think. Be careful...
I agree, but I come to it not from the Ram Dass direction but via Michael Pollan, John's Hopkins, etc. .

Psychedelics were once essential elements of religion, including Israelite and Christian, but have been squeezed out over the centuries. No more visions and miracles as a result.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by Wonderment » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:04 pm

Wow, what an fascinating weekend. Thanks for telling us about your experience. Any time that psychedelics is involved, there's going to be a crowd that are part party people, part spiritual seekers, and part both of those. Agreed, sounds a lot like Burning Man. The spiritual revelations especially seem interesting. Please keep us posted. -- Wndr.

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Hagoth
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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by Hagoth » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:06 pm

1smartdodog wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:53 am
Whoever or whatever the Divine is sure makes it hard to be enlightened. Every one wants you to jump through hoops to get connected. Be nice to have a god who just would be willing to come have a chat with you. All the hype and drug induced euphoria is not my preference.
Yeah, I think that's the common misconception, that the only kind of Divine has to be some being who you need to get marching orders from. I think it's better to think of Divine as what's already in the brain that evolution gave you, and that brain's ability to experience the cosmos in ways that are outside of the go-to-work-buy-groceries-watch-tv kind of daily existence that we live in. Mormonism teaches that we can become gods. Maybe it's better to consider that we already as much gods as we're ever going to be, so why not try to appreciate that?

As far as "drug induced euphoria," I don't know what your experiences are Dog, but that is not what I'm talking about at all. Personally, I don't care at all for intoxicants and so-called euphorics. To me it's the difference between lighting a fire and dumping water on it. Psychedelics can be as challenging as they are euphoric. The euphoria comes not from a free shot of happy juice, but from insight and elevation (the kind that Mormons call The Spirit). Turns out it was in there all along. There are a lot of ways to find it. Psychedelics just happen to be a method that works a hell of a lot better than praying, sitting in meetings, and doing temple endowments.

Take a look at this image that shows the activity of the brain before and during a psilocybin experience. We're talking about a very simple molecule. It doesn't deliver anything new, it doesn't put chemicals in your body, it doesn't store any information. What it does is inhibit natural filters and allows all parts of your brain to communicate with each other, like a key turning in a lock. Long story short, you get to see what's really going on in there in ways that are usually hidden from you.

Image
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by 2bizE » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:19 pm

Any pictures you can share? Sounds like a unique and enlightening experience.
~2bizE

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Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by 1smartdodog » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:51 pm

.
Last edited by 1smartdodog on Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by Hagoth » Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:48 pm

2bizE wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:19 pm
Any pictures you can share? Sounds like a unique and enlightening experience.
I didn't take many pictures. There seemed to be an unspoken culture or keeping phones in pockets.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by Hagoth » Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:08 pm

Linked wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:22 pm
How was your experience? Any stories or takeaways from your mushroom-induced trip that you would be willing to share here?

I am curious if this is a viable path to finding meaning post-mormon belief and would love to hear how it went for you. What was your path from believing mormon to deciding to use mushrooms?
I only did small doses. I was really there mostly as an anthropologist. I generally have my experiences out in nature by myself or with a friend.

I was inactive for a brief period in my late 20s when I felt like I just didn't fit in any ward I attended. During that time an exmo friend introduced me to mushrooms and I did two trips before eventually getting married and diving back into full, believing activity. The next 30 years I was haunted by the fact that, although I had plenty of spiritual experiences in the church, none of them held a candle to what I had experienced with psilocybin. I couldn't convince myself that it had been a counterfeit experience or that Satan was behind it. On my first trip I found myself desperately wishing that all LDS people could have that experience just once to help them understand that there is so much more out there.

I think the really fascinating thing about The Divine Assembly is that it is mostly made up of ex-Mormons looking for a spirituality that works for them better than the system that chewed them up and spat them out. And they don't require anything from you except to put your name on a list and be sincere about your own concept of divinity, even if it's not something metaphysical.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:28 pm

Glad to hear you had a great time.

Did you get the heavy metal music playing again inside your brain you described at lunch?
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by w2mz » Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:34 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:28 pm
Did you get the heavy metal music playing again inside your brain you described at lunch?
I was interested before, but I’m convinced now. Where do I sign up?
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth

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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by 1smartdodog » Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:32 am

Hagoth wrote:
1smartdodog wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:53 am
Whoever or whatever the Divine is sure makes it hard to be enlightened. Every one wants you to jump through hoops to get connected. Be nice to have a god who just would be willing to come have a chat with you. All the hype and drug induced euphoria is not my preference.
Yeah, I think that's the common misconception, that the only kind of Divine has to be some being who you need to get marching orders from. I think it's better to think of Divine as what's already in the brain that evolution gave you, and that brain's ability to experience the cosmos in ways that are outside of the go-to-work-buy-groceries-watch-tv kind of daily existence that we live in. Mormonism teaches that we can become gods. Maybe it's better to consider that we already as much gods as we're ever going to be, so why not try to appreciate that?

As far as "drug induced euphoria," I don't know what your experiences are Dog, but that is not what I'm talking about at all. Personally, I don't care at all for intoxicants and so-called euphorics. To me it's the difference between lighting a fire and dumping water on it. Psychedelics can be as challenging as they are euphoric. The euphoria comes not from a free shot of happy juice, but from insight and elevation (the kind that Mormons call The Spirit). Turns out it was in there all along. There are a lot of ways to find it. Psychedelics just happen to be a method that works a hell of a lot better than praying, sitting in meetings, and doing temple endowments.

Take a look at this image that shows the activity of the brain before and during a psilocybin experience. We're talking about a very simple molecule. It doesn't deliver anything new, it doesn't put chemicals in your body, it doesn't store any information. What it does is inhibit natural filters and allows all parts of your brain to communicate with each other, like a key turning in a lock. Long story short, you get to see what's really going on in there in ways that are usually hidden from you.

Image
I am convinced.


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“Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”
― Thomas A. Edison

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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by Hagoth » Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:07 am

w2mz wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:34 pm
I was interested before, but I’m convinced now. Where do I sign up?
https://www.thedivineassembly.org/join

"Joining the Divine Assembly is quick and free. The only things required are:

(1) sincere belief in your ability to commune with the Divine,
(2) strict adherence to the law and safety protocols, and
(3) a sincere effort to respect yourself, others, and the Divine."

Some things I find interesting about this:

The Divine is however you personally define it. There is no doctrine. Steve Urquhart says that for him the assembly is The Divine.

"Strict adherence to the law" is a significant phrase. Psilocybin is a class 1 scheduled substance BUT religious freedom laws protected it as a sacrament for this church. That doesn't extend to other psychedelics. If you use another "sacrament" you are stepping outside of the church's protective forcefield.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by annotatedbom » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:02 am

Hagoth,

I've never done psychedelics, but I have experienced elevation as a Mormon via prayer or during some experience life had to offer. I have also experienced elevation since then, even associated with ideas antithetical to Mormonism (like contemplating that my journey away from Mormonism is a wonderful thing in many ways). I even had a very powerful elevation experience after meditating once as a non-believer.

That being said, I wonder about this:
Hagoth wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:06 pm
Long story short, you get to see what's really going on in there in ways that are usually hidden from you.
Sam Harris seems to speak of these psychedelic experiences in a similar way - that they help the person experiencing them to better see what's real about themself. I struggle to accept the claim. It seems to be a completely subjective experience that does not justify the claim that it helps better understand reality. It clearly allows a person to see things differently, but is there a way to explain that the different or new perspective is closer to reality? For example, is it that some have not really considered some aspect of themself (i.e. the subconscious) as a part of who they are, and the psychedelic experience opened that consideration to them? I think I would accept that as a justified claim. Or am I missing the point of what you're saying altogether, so my question is irrelevant?

Regardless of how well these experiences help a person see reality, I'm glad you had a good experience.

My best,
A-BoM

Side note:
My understanding is that at least some psychedelics have risks for mental and emotional health. I'm not sure if psilocybin is among those, but it might be worth considering before deciding to use.

ETA:
In a good environment, the chance of harmful emotional or mental effects with psychedelics may be a lot less than the all too common adverse effects of alcohol use. I want to be clear that I’m not arguing against using psychedelics. I’m just encouraging a look at the risks as well as the benefits.
Last edited by annotatedbom on Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:13 pm

annotatedbom wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:02 am
Side note:
My understanding is that at least some psychedelics have risks for mental and emotional health. I'm not sure if psilocybin is among those, but it might be worth considering before deciding to use.
This is my concern. It’s on my bucket list but probably not until I’m past my prime parenting and earnings potential portion of my life. But again, I’m probably just being paranoid. I’m going to continue to read and learn about it. I’m fascinated by the idea of micro dosing as a treatment for depression and mental health.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by Hagoth » Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:18 am

annotatedbom wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:02 am
Sam Harris seems to speak of these psychedelic experiences in a similar way - that they help the person experiencing them to better see what's real about themself. I struggle to accept the claim. It seems to be a completely subjective experience that does not justify the claim that it helps better understand reality. It clearly allows a person to see things differently, but is there a way to explain that the different or new perspective is closer to reality?
I think the short answer to that is no. It is a very subjective experience. What it shows you is that there is much more depth to your ability to feel and perceive your own reality than what you get through your normal senses. One problem is that people experience something and think they can pass that on as knowledge to other people. I look at it more like the discussion we were having about NDEs. I'm a skeptic of the supernatural claims but if someone has a personal experience that makes them happier, kinder, and more understanding I say good for them! (ETA: I say the same thing about Mormonism, but I think psychedelics deliver more consistently). Maybe it really does help you understand reality better, but who knows. Personally, I think it does because it makes you feel like part of something much larger and inter-connected and it shatters false illusions like authority and hierarchical social values.
annotatedbom wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:02 am
For example, is it that some have not really considered some aspect of themself (i.e. the subconscious) as a part of who they are, and the psychedelic experience opened that consideration to them? I think I would accept that as a justified claim. Or am I missing the point of what you're saying altogether, so my question is irrelevant?
I'm not sure I understand the question. If nothing else, it lets you see that your ego is not who you are. The little tyrant gets pushed aside to make some room for the vast inner space around it.
annotatedbom wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:02 am
Side note:
My understanding is that at least some psychedelics have risks for mental and emotional health. I'm not sure if psilocybin is among those, but it might be worth considering before deciding to use.
I will say that psychedelics are certainly not for everyone, or at least not until they can put themselves in a place that allows their ego to take a back seat and accept whatever the internal cosmos throws at you. If you are latently schizophrenic or something like that, as I understand it, psychedelics can bring that to the surface. You shouldn't do it if you're using antidepressants or other mental health prescriptions. For one thing, they will suppress the psychedelic effects. And no alcohol either. It obliterates the effect.

Some things to consider. Most psychedelics cannot be overdosed. People have accidentally or intentionally taken doses that are 100 times recommended levels with no ill effects. Psychedelics are not addictive. In fact, the more you take the less effect they have. Most people get to a place where they only do it a couple of times a year, or even every few years.

As far as physical danger, take a look at this chart:
DrugDeaths.jpeg
DrugDeaths.jpeg (53.7 KiB) Viewed 5075 times
The thin gray one-pixel-thick line at the top labeled is a sloppy collection of that includes Psilocybin, LSD, DMT, Ayahuasca, Peyote, San Pedro, Cannabis, 5-MEO DMT, Datura, and all other psychedelic and hallucinogenic substances. A few of these, like Datura (Joseph Smith's preferred wine additive?) can be poisonous. Note that it also includes opium! I assume this means pure smoked opium (which should definitely NOT be included in this category!). I have never heard of anyone dying from Psilocybin, LSD, etc, despite the propaganda films we watched in church back in the 70s.
annotatedbom wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:02 am
I want to be clear that I’m not arguing against using psychedelics. I’m just encouraging a look at the risks as well as the benefits.
And I want to make it clear that I'm not advocating for the individual use of psychedelics. Just passing on information. I am, however, advocating for the decriminalization of substances that do NOT fit the definition of Schedule 1 drugs. That classification requires that a substance is addictive and has no clinical/therapeutic value. How is it that alcohol and tobacco are not on that list, but psilocybin, which has been officially classified by the FDA as a breakthrough therapy remains?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: Return and Report: Magic Mushrooms in the Desert

Post by Hagoth » Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:23 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:13 pm
annotatedbom wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:02 am
Side note:
My understanding is that at least some psychedelics have risks for mental and emotional health. I'm not sure if psilocybin is among those, but it might be worth considering before deciding to use.
This is my concern. It’s on my bucket list but probably not until I’m past my prime parenting and earnings potential portion of my life. But again, I’m probably just being paranoid. I’m going to continue to read and learn about it. I’m fascinated by the idea of micro dosing as a treatment for depression and mental health.
Nothing wrong with healthy paranoia. If you want to read a fascinating book about this stuff I highly recommend How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan. It will really make you sit up and go "whoa!" Interestingly, Pollan's own experiences weren't as interesting and powerful as most, but his research is fantastic.

Interesting fact: Did you know Alcoholics Anonymous was created as a delivery structure for LSD, because that's how one of it's founders cured his own alcoholism? And gave him his belief in a higher power that is required for the 12-step program.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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