Jeffrey Holland is a terrible human being so it's fitting he gave this talk at BYU

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Hagoth
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Re: Jeffrey Holland is a terrible human being so it's fitting he gave this talk at BYU

Post by Hagoth » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:20 am

Angel wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:38 pm
I work with quite a few LGBTQ and they are amazing kind people, some I would label as empaths. It is strange that this is so triggering for so many....
My daughter's partner spends one day of every week delivering meals on wheels. And that's just one of many volunteer services they both do. How many 25-year olds do things like that? But they are looked down upon by Brethren who will tell you that watching a movie and doing some masonic handshakes is real service.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Palerider
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Re: Jeffrey Holland is a terrible human being so it's fitting he gave this talk at BYU

Post by Palerider » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:44 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:20 am
But they are looked down by Brethren who will tell you that watching a movie and doing some masonic handshakes is real service.
That's because serving your fellow man out of the goodness of your heart, without being assigned to do so, only brings you closer to God.

Being nagged on to constantly watch a movie and do the handshake thing supposedly helps someone in another world but in reality only recommits you to the organization and reminds you of your total and utter dependence on the organization for your salvation and that of your family.

Everything in the church is geared towards that single goal.

Everything.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Red Ryder
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Re: Jeffrey Holland is a terrible human being so it's fitting he gave this talk at BYU

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:31 am

Palerider wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:44 am
Hagoth wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:20 am
But they are looked down by Brethren who will tell you that watching a movie and doing some masonic handshakes is real service.
That's because serving your fellow man out of the goodness of your heart, without being assigned to do so, only brings you closer to God.

Being nagged on to constantly watch a movie and do the handshake thing supposedly helps someone in another world but in reality only recommits you to the organization and reminds you of your total and utter dependence on the organization for your salvation and that of your family.

Everything in the church is geared towards that single goal.

Everything.
Mic drop!!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Hagoth
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Re: Jeffrey Holland is a terrible human being so it's fitting he gave this talk at BYU

Post by Hagoth » Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:18 pm

Palerider wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:44 am
Everything in the church is geared towards that single goal.
Mrs. Hagoth was raised by parents from a traditional Chinese religion that overlaps with Buddhism. We were talking about Buddhist art and she observed that homes from her tradition typically have Buddha figures in the home. She said you would expect LDS families to have statues of Christ. Some do, but you are much more likely to find a little statue of a temple on the mantle. It is a church where the primary object of worship is the church itself.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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græy
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Re: Jeffrey Holland is a terrible human being so it's fitting he gave this talk at BYU

Post by græy » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:01 am

Palerider wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:44 am
That's because serving your fellow man out of the goodness of your heart, without being assigned to do so, only brings you closer to God.

Being nagged on to constantly watch a movie and do the handshake thing supposedly helps someone in another world but in reality only recommits you to the organization and reminds you of your total and utter dependence on the organization for your salvation and that of your family.

Everything in the church is geared towards that single goal.

Everything.
Well said, Palerider.

As a point of note regarding Elder Holland's talk. It has been brought up and hailed as a rallying cry in our stake from 2 of our 3 stake presidency members in the past few weeks. The did mention that it has been "controversial" but did not go into details as to why it was controversial.

At the same time, I have had discussions with 3 of our ward's youth - we do not have a large youth group - each of whom consider or are still trying to understand if they consider themselves bi/gay/lesbian. I also have had at least two adults tell me during interviews that they consider themselves LGBTQ allies and are concerned that they feel increasingly disconnected from the church in that regard.

I told both the adults that Christ himself taught the two most important commandments were to love God and love your neighbor, and so long as they were honestly seeking to do those things they should have no guilt over answering temple recommend questions about contradicting church teachings or practices.

Just going by the numbers here - remember - our ward is very small - if the church doesn't quickly figure out a way to reconcile its doctrine and message with LGBT acceptance, they will likely not survive the growing generation. Or rather, the church will survive but it will lose so much influence and membership that it will shrink to only a shadow of its currently insignificant self.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Hagoth
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Re: Jeffrey Holland is a terrible human being so it's fitting he gave this talk at BYU

Post by Hagoth » Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:31 am

græy wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:01 am
Or rather, the church will survive but it will lose so much influence and membership that it will shrink to only a shadow of its currently insignificant self.
Then it will continue as what it really is, an investment and real estate development corporation. The intangible value that it will lose is the one its leaders cherish most - adoration and legitimization.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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LSOF
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Re: Jeffrey Holland is a terrible human being so it's fitting he gave this talk at BYU

Post by LSOF » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:46 am

I'm trans myself, and my mother defended him using me.
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

Pastor, Lunar Society of Friends; CEO, Faithful Origins and Ontology League

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Angel
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Re: Jeffrey Holland is a terrible human being so it's fitting he gave this talk at BYU

Post by Angel » Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:11 pm

græy wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:01 am
.... Christ himself taught the two most important commandments were to love God and love your neighbor...
Christ himself did not record getting married, and defined family very differently from the church - behold my mother and my brethren. His real name was feminine - Jehovah - masculine hierarchies could not stand the notion of a long-haired feminine named leader, so they changed the name to masculine Jesus ← NOT his name (they got the name of the church wrong).

The entire idea of what a family is, the importance of marriage and men as the head of the household ← not really something that Jehovah taught.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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stealthbishop
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Re: Jeffrey Holland is a terrible human being so it's fitting he gave this talk at BYU

Post by stealthbishop » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:11 am

In a way, I'm glad this talk was given. E. Holland basically spilled the beans and provided a window into the thinking of the top leaders right now. There can be absolutely no doubt whatsoever where the leadership of the church is at and where it is headed in the near future on LGBTQ+ issues and that is:

"We have NOTHING for you" and "there is nothing we can do about it". Being straight/cis, I will not tell any LGBTQ+ person what I think is best for them obviously, but this talk made it crystal clear.

But if I was a parent with young children or adolescents right now, and I even suspected, that I had an LGBTQ+ child, I would take them out of this church immediately. There is nothing for them. They care more about the "few" letters they get from conservative big donors who feel threatened by LGBTQ+ advocacy and inclusion at BYU than the mountains of letters, emails, and even personal visits with them sharing stories of LGBTQ+ suicides and mental health issues because of REJECTION and marginalization. It's absolutely immoral and disgusting.

WHEN SOMEONE SHOWS YOU WHO THEY ARE, BELIEVE THEM!
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Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

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