Five Months Down. 55 To Go.

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græy
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Five Months Down. 55 To Go.

Post by græy » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:50 pm

This is a weird summary. Probably a bit more down than usual - sorry about that.

Burnout: - Primary teachers are randomly not showing up. Some weeks only about 1/3 of teachers show up at all. The primary president is burning out after less than a year.

YW president is also seemingly on the verge of burning out. Though I don't fully understand what is going on there, she seems frustrated that the youth don't plan and organize their own activities ever single week and is getting tired of having to do it herself. Keep in mind the oldest girl in the group is a few months shy of her 14th birthday. What does she really expect?

Attendance: Our ward has a reported attendance of ~130/wk. But that number includes about 35 or so people who view remotely and don't actually contribute to the ward functioning in any meaningful way. Furthermore, ~20 people come to sacrament in person, but leave after that rather than staying for 2nd hour. Our real attendance and activity level is closer to 65 or 70, more than half of which are children and youth.

Youth Programs Related to the above two sections. YW leaders are burning out because of a variety of circumstances, so they frequently default to easy online group activities, most of the girls don't attend.

We as a bishopric are spread very thin. Most every Sunday we're filling in teaching some class, never with more than an hour notice or prep time. On Sundays when we're supposed to be with the young men, we often have to combine quorums so that one or more of us can go substitute in primary.

There is never enough time to focus on the youth because we still have all the regular bishopric sh*t to do. Ideally, the EQP and RSP take a lot of the bishop's load, but that is kind of a pipe dream. Members still come to me, even when I tell them to go to someone else. At best it just swaps me meeting with members for me meeting with EQP and RSP more frequently.

The end result is that most weekly activities are half-way done, and the youth are feeling it. We try and have fun things to do, and I think we largely succeed in that, but there's just no purpose, no reason to be there. No reason not to skip an entire month. Several of the youth I would describe as coming from more dedicated families have since found part time jobs and see no reason not to work on youth activity nights.

In my PIMO mindset I have no issues at all with them doing something useful outside of the carpeted walls of the church, but then the parents of the youth who do come complain that our attendance is too small and expect me to fix it.

Fast Offering Assistance: This is a mixed area for me. I am given a great deal of latitude in determining whether or not a check should be written. That is, they should be a member of the ward, if not that then at least a member of the church in special circumstances (hurricane refugees, etc.), and if not that then very special circumstances that warrant help. Beyond that, I haven't had anyone try to tell me I'm spending too much or too little. They just check for proper documentation and that is that.

I am more than happy to spend the church's money so long as I don't feel like I'm being scammed.

That said, it is SO FRUSTRATING dealing with people in their 30s, 40s, 50s, or 60s who have no clue how to do a basic budget. Many have no idea what a statement is or how to check an account balance. It boggles my mind how some of them have survived this long in life. In some cases it doesn't really matter how often I or the EQP or RSP go over budgeting with them, they just can't or don't care to learn. They also seem to lack any concept of planning ahead for bills. They literally show up the day a check is due, often on a weekday, and expect me to solve all their problems. Sorry, no. It doesn't work like that. Collecting documentation, coordinating other bishopric members for signatures, printing, all takes time.

Mental Health: We have a new member of our ward who is in real need of psycho-therapy. Think Julie Rowe type attitude/behavior/stories. I won't go into details here other than to say their children are possibly at risk due to their failing mental state. CPS has been called but reported they were unable to do anything. This person has been referred to a therapist, but is either refusing to talk about or acknowledge their real problems, or refusing to go altogether. In the meantime, that person's parents keep calling me because they're worried about their grandchildren (Thanks, meeting house locator, for listing my personal phone number! /s :evil: ). Myself, EQP and RSP are working to make sure the children are provided for, but beyond that, its not like we can go in and kidnap the kids. I just don't know what else to do.

Community: Before "accepting" this calling I told Mrs. Græy that I only had two reasons to even continue going to church. The 1st and biggest reason is that she still wants to be there, and I don't want her to feel like she has to go alone. The 2nd (and much lesser reason) is that the ward is our community, our family away from family.

I overheard someone conducting another ward's sacrament the other day. They called a second and third librarian. I think it really hit me just then, we don't have enough active people to have any librarians. If someone in our ward needs something from that room they come find one of us in the bishopric to let them in.

I don't really feel like we even have a community here any more. It is just me and a few other people running around like mad trying to make it seem like we have a tight-nit group of ward friends.

If anything, this extra bishoply responsibility has made me see this "ward family" as a very fragile thing. Its not really even there, and I'm not sure it ever has been. A lot of people don't even want to be there. Most will say they do. Many will feel guilty that they don't. In the end we'd all be happy to be given permission to just stay home.

And voila! My second reason for attending at all just fizzled away. And with it was some of my power to care about the contradictory crap that the rest of the ward guilts themselves over. I'm not giving up here just yet, but I am coming to a realization of just how much this calling can take and take and take. And I don't care enough to let it.
Last edited by græy on Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well, I'm better than dirt! Ah, well... most kinds of dirt; not that fancy store-bought dirt; that stuff is loaded with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff. -Moe Sizlack

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stealthbishop
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by stealthbishop » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:20 pm

I feel for you. I was called as the BP for my ward almost 14 years ago. It's rough. Glad you're at NOM. I got a lot of support from here.
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

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Linked
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by Linked » Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:11 pm

Thanks for the update, I appreciate seeing an honest view from the Bishop's chair. That sounds really heavy for you græy, from keeping the faithful happy with how things are run, to helping people stay afloat who don't seem that interested in staying afloat, to a troubling home situation. That's a lot to put on one person.
græy wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:50 pm
... she seems frustrated that the youth don't plan and organize their own activities ever single week and is getting tired of having to do it herself. Keep in mind the oldest girl in the group is a few months shy of her 14th birthday. What does she really expect?
It seems like the church lesson/activity plans are always asking for the impossible from the teachers and the students, especially the kids and youth. They expect little kids to ponder and teenagers to willingly answer stupid thought-ending questions. And now with the new youth program they place an expectation on the kids to plan their own activities. I suspect that the YW president's expectations were set by the church's new youth program. So now they put you in a position to have to reign her back into reality and go against the church's program.

Hang in there græy!
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Evil_Bert
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by Evil_Bert » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:30 pm

An idea might be to get Google Voice number and put that on the website. That way you can still get calls but not have your personal number out there.
Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:31 pm

Woohoo! I love these updates and this one brought out a drive by visit from Stealth! Glad to see you stop in and make a comment. Bishop Stealth was a long timer on the old NOM board for those that don’t know him. Master of wisdom, kindness, and advocate for equality.

Bishop Graey,

There’s only one way to fix your ward problems.

You guys need to do a ROAD SHOW!

This will bring together the widows on the back row, the disgruntled, the mentally challenged, the youth, and even the Sunday School skippers!

Let me know if you want to invite me for a planning sesh. I can do it over Zoom and provide my own refreshments if needed. :lol: :lol:

Here’s a few themes for your consideration.

7 Brides for Joseph Smith
Boyd: The unauthorized biography of BK Packer
Sunday School Musical
The Book of Mormon
Tapirs!
Nauvoo Utopia
Ain’t Too Proud: The life and Times of Temptation
Hairspray (as never before seen on E Oaks head)
Wicked
The Phantom of the Temple
The Zion King
Nauvoo (set in Chicago)
Brother Hamilton
Les Miserables (the untold stories of an LDS PIMO)

The list is endless. A roadshow is exactly what your ward needs! Think of the line of non-members out the door and down the block from your ward house! Perhaps have them get baptized for better/upgraded seating. Everyone loves the front row!

You pull this off and I foresee Stake President in your future!

Call me, I have amazing costume skills too!
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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blazerb
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by blazerb » Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:28 am

Linked wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:11 pm
Thanks for the update, I appreciate seeing an honest view from the Bishop's chair. That sounds really heavy for you græy, from keeping the faithful happy with how things are run, to helping people stay afloat who don't seem that interested in staying afloat, to a troubling home situation. That's a lot to put on one person.
græy wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:50 pm
... she seems frustrated that the youth don't plan and organize their own activities ever single week and is getting tired of having to do it herself. Keep in mind the oldest girl in the group is a few months shy of her 14th birthday. What does she really expect?
It seems like the church lesson/activity plans are always asking for the impossible from the teachers and the students, especially the kids and youth. They expect little kids to ponder and teenagers to willingly answer stupid thought-ending questions. And now with the new youth program they place an expectation on the kids to plan their own activities. I suspect that the YW president's expectations were set by the church's new youth program. So now they put you in a position to have to reign her back into reality and go against the church's program.

Hang in there græy!
I love reading your reports, græy. As far as youth planning goes, I think the church is expecting it because they see it happen in scouting. However, they ignore a couple of things that make it possible there, which I gleaned from years of going to roundtable with my non-Mormon scouting friends. So here are the reasons no local leader should feel guilty for a youth program that does not meet expectations

First, you have to have leaders who want to be there. This means allowing them to self-select. To get youth to plan, the adults are going to have to work even more. Adult leaders should plan on a full-time job. Calling the young parent who barely has time to sleep at night is not a good strategy.

Second, the youth have to want to be there. If it's just the default Wednesday night activity that the kids do because that's what they've always done, the kids will have no incentive.

Third, there has to be the ability to plan major activities. This takes money and insurance and experience. The church typically does not fund youth activities to a level that will allow this. Kids are limited in their ability to raise money. The church does not let the families spend much of their own money, for good reason. There just is no source of money to maintain the kind of program that attracts people.

Fourth, there has to be training. For the leaders, both youth and adult, to create the kind of program the church envisions, people have to be trained. This increases confidence and gives ideas for what can be done. It also means that the activities will be a lot safer.

Fifth and finally, there has to be a well-developed program supporting all the people who want to create the great activities. It can't come from nothing. Unless the church puts in the resources to create the structure that the activities can be built on, there will be no great activities. The kids will be better off having the job.

So, I submit that the problems with every youth program in the church are not local. They come from the top. The local leaders are doing the best they can with the tools they have. Better tools would give a better result.

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græy
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by græy » Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:23 am

stealthbishop wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:20 pm
I feel for you. I was called as the BP for my ward almost 14 years ago. It's rough. Glad you're at NOM. I got a lot of support from here.
Thanks! I had to go back and read your intro on NOM 2.0. Its really cool that you were one of the ones to sign Sam's apology statement. I'm honored to have a legend commenting on my thread!
Well, I'm better than dirt! Ah, well... most kinds of dirt; not that fancy store-bought dirt; that stuff is loaded with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff. -Moe Sizlack

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Fifi de la Vergne
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by Fifi de la Vergne » Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:25 am

I'm always interested in these updates. It sounds like a pretty tough slog, at least at the moment.

Your last comment, about how much the job can take and take, triggered a memory. I was good friends with both the wife and the adult daughter of the man who was bishop during my last active years. Although very faithful and active, the daughter expressed real grief and resentment over her dad's time and attention that she felt was stolen from her family during his years as bishop. I don't know what stage of life your family is in, but I hope they aren't getting short-shrift. I hope somehow you are finding (or making) time to take care of yourself.
Joy is the emotional expression of the courageous Yes to one's own true being.

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græy
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by græy » Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:31 am

Linked wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:11 pm
It seems like the church lesson/activity plans are always asking for the impossible from the teachers and the students, especially the kids and youth. They expect little kids to ponder and teenagers to willingly answer stupid thought-ending questions. And now with the new youth program they place an expectation on the kids to plan their own activities. I suspect that the YW president's expectations were set by the church's new youth program. So now they put you in a position to have to reign her back into reality and go against the church's program.
blazerb wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:28 am
So, I submit that the problems with every youth program in the church are not local. They come from the top. The local leaders are doing the best they can with the tools they have. Better tools would give a better result.
You both hit the nail on the head. Semi-motivated voluntold individuals with no support, guide, or tools can only do so much.

I just don't understand what the church hopes to accomplish here. Youth have been leaving in droves for a long time now. They know they need something different, and the best they can come up with is... nothing? Just wave their hands in the air and say "help the youth accomplish personal goals. Oh! And sometimes as a group."

It almost really feels like they wanted to jettison scouting but just didn't have enough time to replace it with anything else. Except that its been more than two years now and we're still here. They know they need to do something but a bunch of 80 year old men who live inside a bubble and echo chamber can't seem to bring themselves to understand what.

I predict that the number of youth feeling any degree of attachment to the church will continue to decrease. Not coincidentally, the number of youth who grow to despise the church for being boring, hateful, and bigoted will increase.
Well, I'm better than dirt! Ah, well... most kinds of dirt; not that fancy store-bought dirt; that stuff is loaded with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff. -Moe Sizlack

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græy
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by græy » Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:33 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:31 pm
You guys need to do a ROAD SHOW!
Here’s a few themes for your consideration.

7 Brides for Joseph Smith
Boyd: The unauthorized biography of BK Packer
Sunday School Musical
The Book of Mormon
Tapirs!
Nauvoo Utopia
Ain’t Too Proud: The life and Times of Temptation
Hairspray (as never before seen on E Oaks head)
Wicked
The Phantom of the Temple
The Zion King
Nauvoo (set in Chicago)
Brother Hamilton
Les Miserables (the untold stories of an LDS PIMO)

...

Call me, I have amazing costume skills too!
:lol: :D

Red Ryder, you are my hero!
Well, I'm better than dirt! Ah, well... most kinds of dirt; not that fancy store-bought dirt; that stuff is loaded with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff. -Moe Sizlack

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græy
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by græy » Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:11 am

Fifi de la Vergne wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:25 am
I'm always interested in these updates. It sounds like a pretty tough slog, at least at the moment.

Your last comment, about how much the job can take and take, triggered a memory. I was good friends with both the wife and the adult daughter of the man who was bishop during my last active years. Although very faithful and active, the daughter expressed real grief and resentment over her dad's time and attention that she felt was stolen from her family during his years as bishop. I don't know what stage of life your family is in, but I hope they aren't getting short-shrift. I hope somehow you are finding (or making) time to take care of yourself.
I have also heard similar stories. Early on I made an effort to limit actual meetings/appointments to only two days a week. That hasn't always worked out as the stake inserts its own meetings and/or "emergencies" arise. But I have made a bigger effort towards weekends being strictly family time. My phone gets shut off for the entirety of Saturday, which kind of makes Sunday morning a b**ch, but it has been worth it.
Well, I'm better than dirt! Ah, well... most kinds of dirt; not that fancy store-bought dirt; that stuff is loaded with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff. -Moe Sizlack

Charlotte
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by Charlotte » Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:57 am

græy wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:11 am
Fifi de la Vergne wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:25 am
I'm always interested in these updates. It sounds like a pretty tough slog, at least at the moment.

Your last comment, about how much the job can take and take, triggered a memory. I was good friends with both the wife and the adult daughter of the man who was bishop during my last active years. Although very faithful and active, the daughter expressed real grief and resentment over her dad's time and attention that she felt was stolen from her family during his years as bishop. I don't know what stage of life your family is in, but I hope they aren't getting short-shrift. I hope somehow you are finding (or making) time to take care of yourself.
I have also heard similar stories. Early on I made an effort to limit actual meetings/appointments to only two days a week. That hasn't always worked out as the stake inserts its own meetings and/or "emergencies" arise. But I have made a bigger effort towards weekends being strictly family time. My phone gets shut off for the entirety of Saturday, which kind of makes Sunday morning a b**ch, but it has been worth it.
I look back at my husband’s time as bishop with significant regret. I wish we had both been more conscious of the time it was taking from our family. Precious time. And in an instant they’re grown and gone. Good on you for turning your phone off and giving your family undivided attention.

(None of this meant as a criticism of my husband. He was a faithful guy trying to do the nearly-impossible.)

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fetchface
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by fetchface » Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:27 am

I was never a bishop but when I was EQP with three toddlers and an infant at home, I remember on my drives home from work thinking about how if I got in a car accident and died, death would be a nice rest.

Clearly I had too much going on in my life to be EQP, but the feedback I got from my leaders was that I needed to be doing more.

The church will take, take, take, as much as it can without regard for the effects on its people.
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
My blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/

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A New Name
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by A New Name » Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:36 pm

I've shared this before, but worth repeating. While I was Bishop, we had a visiting 70 meet with just the bishops. He told us the Q12 wants bishops to have both a wife and a job when they are released, and they are seeing more and more cases where this is not the case. He also told us that the average time served for bishops world wide was 3.5 years, and that they are seeing bishops move to get out of their callings. His whole point was we needed to delegate more to the EQ/HPGL and RS Pres. That was 18 years ago! Some things never change.

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2bizE
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by 2bizE » Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:53 am

I don’t think I would make a good bishop….but here are some thoughts.
1) Burnout is real. Bad enough when it is a job or livelihood, but for a volunteer-based, not-real religion, it is concerning. Why not make church only twice-monthly? This would give everyone a break.
2) Delegation- if someone else can do it, then have them do it.
3) Ward vacation- sometime people have a vacation from church, why not the whole ward. At least a few times per year.
4) Fun things: I like the idea of bringing back the roadshows. Church leaders have stripped all fun from the church. All that is left is a boring shell of the past. Set aside 10% of received tithing and fast offerings for ward entertainment.
5) Cleaning assignments- tell the stake your ward is no longer participating in cleaning the building assignments. They can hire Janitors to do that.
~2bizE

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Linked
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by Linked » Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:34 pm

A New Name wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:36 pm
I've shared this before, but worth repeating. While I was Bishop, we had a visiting 70 meet with just the bishops. He told us the Q12 wants bishops to have both a wife and a job when they are released, and they are seeing more and more cases where this is not the case. He also told us that the average time served for bishops world wide was 3.5 years, and that they are seeing bishops move to get out of their callings. His whole point was we needed to delegate more to the EQ/HPGL and RS Pres. That was 18 years ago! Some things never change.
So, the solution from the 70 was to tell you that those bishops were doing it wrong? That doesn't seem very helpful.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Angel
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by Angel » Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:23 pm

Here's one idea - form a support group for the less/non active. :) you know, to boost activity rates. Create a new 2nd hr meeting group for everyone who wants to discuss "problems with the church". Invite all disgruntled burned out members - then sit back, let the "support" meeting blow up, allow everyone to learn the truth about the church, instigate mass exodus for everyone - and, problems solved - ward disbanded, everyone released from pointless fake callings, invite everyone to celebrate their new freedom together at local park.

WWJD? Overturn the tables at the temples - keep the flock together ❤ - be brave, do it, the "less active" are amazing people and will help everyone escape together ❤
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Palerider
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Re: Five Months Down. 54 To Go.

Post by Palerider » Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:37 pm

The LDS church is so, so sad....

Instead of endless Stake "Rah Rah" meetings that do absolutely no good, they should have one meeting biannually with Bishoprics and their wives where dinner is catered from an outside source as a simple "Thank you" meeting. Paid for by the Corp.

In their regular Sunday meetings they should have a one hour sacrament meeting starting at 10:00 a.m.

And a voluntary scripture study class held at 9:00 for those who feel the need. That's it. No more. Primary for kids under 10 years of age held concurrently with sacrament meeting.



During the week they offer two classes on Wednesday evenings.

1. Life management skills for adults. (For those who are growing up late.)

2. Life management skills for youth under 18. (To stave off the above.)

These run concurrently and are taught by professionals which the church Corp reimburses.

No more "Ministering". No more Rah Rah meetings.

A small council (rotating annually) of high priests could be available for members who need help, with the Bishop becoming involved on an as needed (truly as needed) basis.

The Bishop would expedite solutions by sending members to PROFESSIONALS PROVIDED BY THE CORP to help members resolve issues. (We all know the Corp really has the money to do this if they were truly interested in helping people.)

They need to break the culture that maintains Bishops have magical powers to solve all the people problems that arise. It just ain't so.

If the above works out and a women's group wants to create a "time for women" evening or whatever, they should be free to do so. It should be voluntary not expected or mandatory. They should be free to develop their own agendas.

I'm sure there's more. Just can't think of it except to say that the current church is highly susceptible to "mission creep". Start out doing one thing.....end up doing fifty.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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