Where Will You Go?

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Linked
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Where Will You Go?

Post by Linked » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:20 pm

I was discussing my faith crisis with my pretty understanding TBM mom the other day and I was trying to express the difficulty of being an all-in TBM and then finding out it wasn't true. I even blurted, "Where was I supposed to go?", without realizing what I was saying. Clearly very similar to Elder Ballard's stay-in-the-boat threat-question "If you choose to become inactive or to leave the restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, where will you go?"

People like to make fun of that statement with pictures of mimosas and second Saturday and "wherever I want", but it's a real existential question between TBM and post mormon. As a lifelong TBM I had no experience being anything else. My entire emotional support group and much of my career network were TBMs. The people closest to me like my parents, siblings, and DW were all dyed in the wool TBMs. From that perspective "where will you go?" weighs heavy.

Now I drink coffee but worry about who sees me because I don't want it to be weird. I'm reminded that I'm different when I bring up movies that other family members won't see because of the rating. I watch my kids try to figure out who their dad is that gets to skip the second half of church (my son asked me where I go when they are in primary, seeming to want to confirm that I am not at church).

Where will you go is a threat. They have your family, your friends, even your past self, and they will use them against you.

Now let's go get mimosas.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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nibbler
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Re: Where Will You Go?

Post by nibbler » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:56 pm

Here's the quote from Ballard:
M. Russell Ballard wrote:If any one of you is faltering in your faith, I ask you the same question that Peter asked: “To whom shall you go?”
But that's not the same question Peter asked in the story.

Jesus: Will ye also go away?
Peter: Lord, to whom shall we go?

Now imagine if the story went like:

Jesus: To whom shall you go?
Peter: ...

To me there's a difference between being presented with a decision, weighing my options, and making the determination that it's best for me to stay and someone asking a rhetorical question with the goal of communicating that I couldn't do any better elsewhere.

I agree, "Where will you go?" is a threat. It's something someone might say to prevent another person from leaving an abusive relationship.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

stuck
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Re: Where Will You Go?

Post by stuck » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:22 pm

When my best friend found out I was having a faith crisis 8 years ago, he asked me the same question and I've thought about that a bit. I have heard some people on Mormon Stories answer that question as to why not stay and have heard some of their answers. Like why stay in a church that is homophobic, sexist, judgmental, boring, or just not true?

I think those of us in mixed faith marriages it is more difficult, especially when are spouses are uber tbm. We want to support them to a certain degree, but we also need to be respected I think. Marriage is not a one way street right? Or at least it shouldn't be--but sometimes in a mixed faith marriage it very much feels that way because we want to get along and it seems if we are too assertive in our views and so forth we are "rocking the boat".

It's a difficult road as we all know. I guess we just need to remember Red Ryder's wise philosophy to make the church less of a priority in our thinking and behavior as much as possible.

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Palerider
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Re: Where Will You Go?

Post by Palerider » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:08 pm

This is why I value this quote from George Washington so much.

"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

If someone were to ask me, "Where will you go?" I would respond that I am searching for truth, wherever that leads and the LDS church has only a partial truth which truth it misuses to bind or shackle people to a dishonest organization.

Paraphrasing what the Savior said "The truth shall set you free".

If the church wasn't afraid of the truth they never would have suppressed it or avoided it. They would have proudly displayed it for all to see. The only reason they have addressed some of the "non loyalty promoting" facts is because the internet has forced the church and the truth into the light. Otherwise there would be no essays written and no apologist websites trying to keep a finger in the dike.

Everything would be the same as when the big problem was long hair and mustaches on men and short skirts on women. They never would have brought the difficulties into view of their own volition.

Church leadership were afraid of the truth then and they still are. Fear is the antithesis of faith.

ETA:

A pertinent quote from Dallin H. Oaks:

"My duty as a member of the Council of the Twelve is to protect what is most unique about the LDS church, namely the authority of priesthood, testimony regarding the restoration of the gospel, and the divine mission of the Savior. Everything else [including facts, evidence, and truth itself I suppose] may be sacrificed in order to maintain the integrity of those essential facts. Thus, if Mormon Enigma reveals information that is detrimental to the reputation of Joseph Smith, then it is necessary to try to limit its influence and that of its authors."

(Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith: Psychobiography and the Book of Mormon)


And there you go.... ;)
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Red Ryder
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Re: Where Will You Go?

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:17 pm

stuck wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:22 pm
It's a difficult road as we all know. I guess we just need to remember Red Ryder's wise philosophy to make the church less of a priority in our thinking and behavior as much as possible.
Correction... Corsair’s wise “indifference philosophy” that Red Ryder parrots a lot. 🦜

The exmo crowd likes to sensationalize everything. It can become its own religion that follows “exmo apostles”. We all know who they are. 😂

I don’t get particularly upset at the things the apostles say now because frankly I don’t care anymore. I get annoyed but mildly because my TBM family seems to hang on their words. Reminder that GC is coming... ugh.

I think what you’re alluding to is the balance between living in a peaceful harmony with your TBM family (wife, parents, in-laws, etc) and being your authentic self. Over time that space narrows and becomes a self induced tight rope.

At some point the anxiety becomes overwhelming and you decide to step off. Only to realize the tight rope was really a few inches off the ground.

I used to try and hide the fact I wasn’t wearing garments often times by still wearing a plain white t-shirt under my t-shirt.

I used to look over my shoulder when grabbing coffee, or going to the store on Sundays or other silly Mormon “sins” I was committing.

The secret to stepping off the tight rope is to stop caring what 99% of other people think about you. Care about the 1% (your spouse & kids, your boss, people directly tied to your livelihood) and focus the other 99% of your emotional energy on what you think about yourself.

A faith crisis is difficult because it causes us to strip away our cookie cutter identities. Our families are worried about us. Our parents feel like failures. We no longer do things out of fear we will miss our eternal reward.

Suddenly we don’t know who we are anymore.

...and that’s the beauty in all this. We can now be whomever we want to be. Think however we want. Choose our own underwear. Choose our moral compass. Speak out against stupid beliefs. That’s a gift! Close your eyes silence your thought for a minute and take that in. IT’S A GIFT!!

If mimosas aren’t your thing, then so be it.

Where will we go?

To find ourselves however we want to define it.

Then we can change that too if we want.

We are free!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Red Ryder
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Re: Where Will You Go?

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:37 pm

Palerider wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:08 pm
(Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith: Psychobiography and the Book of Mormon)
Thanks for posting that quote and reference to the book. Just skimmed a few pages I found online. Joseph Smith as a narcissist and same tendencies throughout the church. I’ll start a new post rather than hijack Link’s here.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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moksha
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Re: Where Will You Go?

Post by moksha » Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:06 am

When the first dwellers of Socrates Cave poked their heads out it must have been so confusing. Why is it so bright? What is this thing called color and is it dangerous? It is so big, what if I fall into the sky?

There were so many questions for the Socrates Cave dwellers. In that cave, they knew their place among the shadows. They experienced order and certainty. The outside was just so big and no one was there to make you sit still and be quiet.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: Where Will You Go?

Post by Hagoth » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:00 am

nibbler wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:56 pm
Jesus: To whom shall you go?
Peter: ...
On the rock where Peter was sitting we see a papyrus with a reed pen drawing of a mimosa.

From inside a faithful mind it is impossible to understand that expecting your disaffected loved one to stay in the boat is like:

-Continuing to spend all of your weekends ghost hunting after you stop believing in ghosts.

-Dorothy kneeling and praying to the Wizard after seeing behind the curtain.

-Continuing you to go to all of Milly Vanilly's concerts after the lip synch reveal.

-Believing in Flat Earth even after orbiting the planet in Elon's SpaceX capsule.

-Insisting that Q is always right even though none of his predictions ever came true. No, wait, people still do that.

So, your loved ones WANT you to think like a Q-Anon conspiracy theorist.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Red Ryder
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Re: Where Will You Go?

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:42 am

“Hagoth” wrote: Continuing to go to all of Milly Vanilly's concerts after the lip synch reveal.
🎶🎵Girl, you know it’s true!!! 🎶🎵
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

hmb
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Re: Where Will You Go?

Post by hmb » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:20 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:00 am


-Continuing you to go to all of Milly Vanilly's concerts after the lip synch reveal.

What? I always thought it was Nilly Vanilly. When ever I heard the news reports, I would crave Vanilla Wafers. Now, after all these years, I find out it's Milly and not Nilly? Huh. I know it doesn't have anything to do with the topic, but color me dorky :oops: .

Now I want some Vanilla Wafers.

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moksha
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Re: Where Will You Go?

Post by moksha » Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:15 pm

hmb wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:20 pm
Now I want some Vanilla Wafers.
Live dangerously and go for some ginger snaps.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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2bizE
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Re: Where Will You Go?

Post by 2bizE » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:35 am

I’ve been going fishing on Sundays with my boys. It has been a blast, and a great bonding opportunity. I don’t really care who in the neighborhood sees me pulling out with the watercraft.
~2bizE

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stealthbishop
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Re: Where Will You Go?

Post by stealthbishop » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:41 am

Linked wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:20 pm
I was discussing my faith crisis with my pretty understanding TBM mom the other day and I was trying to express the difficulty of being an all-in TBM and then finding out it wasn't true. I even blurted, "Where was I supposed to go?", without realizing what I was saying. Clearly very similar to Elder Ballard's stay-in-the-boat threat-question "If you choose to become inactive or to leave the restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, where will you go?"

People like to make fun of that statement with pictures of mimosas and second Saturday and "wherever I want", but it's a real existential question between TBM and post mormon. As a lifelong TBM I had no experience being anything else. My entire emotional support group and much of my career network were TBMs. The people closest to me like my parents, siblings, and DW were all dyed in the wool TBMs. From that perspective "where will you go?" weighs heavy.

Now I drink coffee but worry about who sees me because I don't want it to be weird. I'm reminded that I'm different when I bring up movies that other family members won't see because of the rating. I watch my kids try to figure out who their dad is that gets to skip the second half of church (my son asked me where I go when they are in primary, seeming to want to confirm that I am not at church).

Where will you go is a threat. They have your family, your friends, even your past self, and they will use them against you.

Now let's go get mimosas.
It's not that easy for some people. My first thought was typical--like the mimosas. But for people like my wife who recently pulled away from the church, it has been super hard. It will take a long time for her to fill the gap and not as easy. I started at NOM in like 2010 or 2011. For my wife, it's very fresh and hasn't been easy at all. A part of her feels an enormous sense of loss. We still attend now and then while she's still figuring things out.
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

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