Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
User avatar
moksha
Posts: 4088
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by moksha » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:21 am

It has now been determined that Shawn McCraney will host the debate at his church on Saturday, November 13th at 6:00 p.m. He will record and live stream the entire situation. McCraney's church is in Murray, Utah.
The Midnight Mormons have asked Consiglieri to increase the number of debaters on his team so it doesn't look like they are ganging up on him, and Consiglieri with calm aplomb said, "Nah, it's all good". So it will be the 3 Midnight Mormons inner tubes against the Tsunami tidal wave Consiglieri.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Red Ryder
Posts: 3414
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:44 am

For those of us without cable as well as those of us with hobbies and interests outside of faux apologetic/celebrity Mormonism...

Can you please add a quick TV guide style info blurb?

Who are these midnight Mormons you speak of?
Why would they WANT to debate Mr. Consiglieri?
Who is Shawn McCraney?
Does Dan Peterson still like glazed donuts or sprinkles?

Will this be rated E for entertainment?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 5722
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by Hagoth » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:48 am

This should be fascinating! I suppose a URL will be made available for watching the stream?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
Just This Guy
Posts: 1288
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: Almost Heaven

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by Just This Guy » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:41 pm

It has now been determined that Shawn McCraney will host the debate at his church on Saturday, November 13th at 6:00 p.m. He will record and live stream the entire situation. McCraney's church is in Murray, Utah.
The Midnight Mormons have asked Consiglieri to increase the number of debaters on his team so it doesn't look like they are ganging up on him, and Consiglieri with calm aplomb said, "Nah, it's all good". So it will be the 3 Midnight Mormons inner tubes against the Tsunami tidal wave Consiglieri.
[emphasis added]

Snort! I wonder if those guy are forgetting they are going up against a well seasoned trail lawyer.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

User avatar
wtfluff
Posts: 3189
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by wtfluff » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:14 pm

Honestly, my first thoughts about this are: You can't debate with brainwashed Zoobies. These kids don't have any answers. Will Consig and McCraney let them get away with the turning it into testimony meeting? Or will the kids just fall back on "Neener neener neener! My dad can beat your dad at thumb-wrestling!!!"

Hopefully it will turn out well, but the last "debate" I saw Kwaku involved in he basically "walked out" in the middle of it.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

User avatar
Corsair
Posts: 3073
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:58 am
Location: Phoenix

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by Corsair » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:52 pm

This should be broadcast on pay-per-view. I'm a big fan of RFM and I would be optimistic for him, but a debate format is a rather different beast than we usually see. Anything could happen and it's entirely possible for both audiences to be slightly disappointed while both RFM and Midnight Mormons declare victory. Meanwhile, Shawn McRaney spends the evening trying to corral both sides into not talking past each other.

I hope that the topic scope is tightly limited with Pastor McRaney allowed to slap down either side attempting to broaden the scope unnecessarily.

User avatar
jfro18
Posts: 1874
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by jfro18 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:12 pm

Corsair wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:52 pm
a debate format is a rather different beast than we usually see. Anything could happen and it's entirely possible for both audiences to be slightly disappointed while both RFM and Midnight Mormons declare victory.
This is my prediction FWIW... much like a presidential debate, both sides will talk past each other, try not to say anything horribly stupid, and then declare victory after.

Or maybe it's super civil the whole time and at the end they all shake hands and actually continue what could be a more friendly back and forth... that would be great but I'd still put more odds on the former.

Red Ryder
Posts: 3414
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:35 pm

If Consig needs a practice debate...

Corsair and Kish are available . :lol:

RFM vs Midnight Masturbators
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 5722
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by Hagoth » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:32 am

There is no question that RFM would pulverize them in a real, well managed debate where the opposite team is actually responding to what is being said, but from what I have heard from these guys it's pretty hard to to imagine them actually participating in a thoughtful, sincere, logical debate that doesn't break down into juvenile tactics. I predict a lot of Ken Hammery, fancy footwork, and dancing with Mr. Straw. I also look forward to RFM calling them out on those tactics and trying to hold them to the questions. I certainly hope the moderator limits the responses to one person on the team at a time. A panel of Donald Trumpian debaters would just be sad.

I'm sure it will be a very entertaining and historic example of playing chess with pigeons, and the next day the bruised and bleeding pigeons will be crooning triumphantly about how their opponent was slipping and sliding on the knee deep layer of sh!t they deposited all over the board.

Can't wait.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
jfro18
Posts: 1874
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by jfro18 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:58 am

I think it's smart of RFM to go it alone as well... it allows him to stay on his gameplan without any worry of another person (whoever it might be) throwing him off.

This will be one I will try to listen to live even though it will be when everyone is around so we'll see - I have high hopes even if I expect it to end up being either a complete mess or a typical political debate where everyone just talks past each other and claims victory.

User avatar
stealthbishop
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:25 am

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by stealthbishop » Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:32 am

Never heard of the Midnight Mormons. I know RFM. I'm surprised that Bill Reel is not with him?
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 5722
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by Hagoth » Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:36 am

Will there also be a live audience? It would be fun to attend.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
jfro18
Posts: 1874
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by jfro18 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:45 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:36 am
Will there also be a live audience? It would be fun to attend.
That is the plan - last I saw RFM posted on Facebook that they were looking for a venue that could hold around 100 people and I believe the idea is that each side could have about 50 there.

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 5722
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by Hagoth » Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:40 am

Another form of obfuscation I hope we won't see: "In episode 279 you said, "blah blah... some silly thing cherrypicked from thousands of hours of podcasting that makes it sound like you were saying something you weren't... Let's dissect your sentence in extreme detail for 15 minutes in order to dodge the actual topic."
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Red Ryder
Posts: 3414
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:06 am

stealthbishop wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:32 am
Never heard of the Midnight Mormons. I know RFM. I'm surprised that Bill Reel is not with him?
I guess he’s too busy “Joseph Smithing” around according to one of the Midnight Mormons.

Image
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
jfro18
Posts: 1874
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by jfro18 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:14 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:06 am
stealthbishop wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:32 am
Never heard of the Midnight Mormons. I know RFM. I'm surprised that Bill Reel is not with him?
I guess he’s too busy “Joseph Smithing” around according to one of the Midnight Mormons.

Image
Cardon Ellis seems to be the worst of the three by far. He is very quick to attack people in order to avoid the substance being talked about.

User avatar
wtfluff
Posts: 3189
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by wtfluff » Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:15 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:36 am
Will there also be a live audience? It would be fun to attend.
Hagoth wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:40 am
Another form of obfuscation I hope we won't see: "In episode 279 you said, "blah blah... some silly thing cherrypicked from thousands of hours of podcasting that makes it sound like you were saying something you weren't... Let's dissect your sentence in extreme detail for 15 minutes in order to dodge the actual topic."
I hope it's OK to quote RFM from FakeBook.
RFM wrote: DEBATE TIME AND PLACE FINALIZED!
I chatted with Shawn McCraney yesterday on the phone and he was very gracious in permitting the use of his church in Murray, Utah for the debate.

I am now able to announce the following relating to the debate between RFM and the Midnight Mormons; i.e., Kwaku El, Cardon Ellis and Brad Witbeck.

PLACE--Shawn McCraney's church, the C.A.M.P.U.S Church, located at 137 W 4640 S, Murray, Utah 84107.
DATE--Saturday, November 13th, 2021.
TIME--6:00 p.m.

There are still some details that need to be worked out, such as whether to charge admission. The Midnight Mormons had suggested at one point charging admission and donating proceeds to a worthy cause.

While I lean toward RFM Charities, it strikes me that a worthy cause under the circumstances would be Shawn McCraney's church.

Shawn told me his church seats around 160 people, so that should probably be kept in mind by those planning to attend.

In order to keep people from making the trip only to find no room at the inn and be turned away at the door, it would make sense to sell tickets in advance.

I really don't want to micromanage this event any more than I already have, so am open to ideas at this point. Perhaps the Midnight Mormons will have some ideas along these lines.

Finally, Shawn understands the questions will be crowd sourced, and he will select eight questions for the debate; four of which are directed more toward Midnight Mormons and four of which are directed more toward me. Shawn will alternate the questions accordingly.

The first side to whom the question is addressed will have five minutes to respond; then the other side will have five minutes for rebuttal; and finally the original side will have three minutes for surrebuttal.

The next question will then be addressed to the other side, and so on for all eight questions. This should take up about two hours.

Shawn also told me he has all the equipment at his church for recording the proceedings as well as for live-streaming the event.

There are still a few more details to work out, but it looks like the main building blocks are in place--we have a location and a date and time.

I want to thank everyone who is volunteering to make this happen!
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

User avatar
Angel
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 8:26 am

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by Angel » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:21 pm

How are questions submitted, and who decides which questions?

Is there a couple neutral non-affiliated judges? (Canvas out-of-state debate teachers)? The $ could go towards getting legit moderator?
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

User avatar
jfro18
Posts: 1874
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by jfro18 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:23 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:36 am
Will there also be a live audience? It would be fun to attend.
Hagoth - as an update to earlier, RFM said in their podcast last night that it will absolutely be open to the public so if you can go by all means check it out so you can return and report. :D

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 4088
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Debate night: RFM vs Midnight Mormoms

Post by moksha » Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:27 pm

Potential Debate Question:

If a train is traveling at 90 mph from Nauvoo, and another train is traveling at 30 mph from Kirtland, how long will it take for Joseph Smith to marry another man’s wife that was just sent on an overseas mission?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests