An Abrahamic test

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Hagoth
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An Abrahamic test

Post by Hagoth » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:10 am

The church loves the idea of the Abrahamic test. Their version is that you be willing sacrifice anything and everything FOR the church in order to strengthen your faith in the church.

How about this for an Abrahamic test:

Place all of your most beloved beliefs on the altar. Surrender your trust in authority long enough to thoroughly study and test those beliefs that you hold dear. If you do it sincerely, and if it is true, God will send an angel to tell you when you have done enough. Otherwise you know that God wanted you to sacrifice those old beliefs - kill your darlings - and continue seeking truth.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

stuck
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Re: An Abrahamic test

Post by stuck » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:53 am

That is a great idea Hagoth! Why isn't the church interested in truth? I guess most within the church still believe in the first vision right? So if that's true, then everything else is? Yet, there are mountains of evidence against the Book of Mormon and so forth. I was just watching this show about ancient horses in America. The paleontologists found bones that date to 500,000 years ago. Those were the last horses that lived in America before Columbus came. So where are the Book of Mormon horses?

dogbite
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Re: An Abrahamic test

Post by dogbite » Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:29 am

Dan Simmons in the Hyperions books (first is great, it goes downhill after that) has a Jewish character posit that the test is not God testing Abraham, but Abraham testing God. Abraham has no intention of sacrificing his son, but that if God is worthy of worship, he will provide a solution to the immoral command.

Interesting take, but I don't think it saves the story from its problems.

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jfro18
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Re: An Abrahamic test

Post by jfro18 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:56 pm

This is great and I'm stealing this for a future TikTok video just so you know. :lol:

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Corsair
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Re: An Abrahamic test

Post by Corsair » Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:12 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:10 am
How about this for an Abrahamic test:

Place all of your most beloved beliefs on the altar. Surrender your trust in authority long enough to thoroughly study and test those beliefs that you hold dear. If you do it sincerely, and if it is true, God will send an angel to tell you when you have done enough. Otherwise you know that God wanted you to sacrifice those old beliefs - kill your darlings - and continue seeking truth.
This is effectively how the institutional church expresses this test. If you end up with a leader, family member, or apologist expressing this test to you I would see two responses. First, if God is not real then then this kind of test is complete baloney and not worth doing. Second, if God is real then clearly He is not interested in testing quite like this. I admittedly lean towards the second option.
dogbite wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:29 am
Dan Simmons in the Hyperions books (first is great, it goes downhill after that) has a Jewish character posit that the test is not God testing Abraham, but Abraham testing God. Abraham has no intention of sacrificing his son, but that if God is worthy of worship, he will provide a solution to the immoral command.
I loved those books. This view by the Jewish character is not something that Dan Simmons necessarily invented. I have heard Jewish philosophers provide a similar explanation.

There is yet another view that states that Abraham technically failed this test. He was supposed to turn down God simply on principle. "I cannot do this, God. You can kill my son and you have every right and means to kill me. But I am not going to murder my only son."

I recognize that the parallels with the atonement of Jesus are one point of the story in Genesis 22 currently. But at best this is an ultra-advanced test that only prophets talking directly to God might ever see. This is dramatically different than how the modern church tries to present the test and all of the reasons we might need to sacrifice for the institutional LDS church.

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Hagoth
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Re: An Abrahamic test

Post by Hagoth » Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:08 pm

Nephi failed the Laban test too.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Palerider
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Re: An Abrahamic test

Post by Palerider » Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:15 pm

Corsair wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:12 pm
But at best this is an ultra-advanced test that only prophets talking directly to God might ever see. This is dramatically different than how the modern church tries to present the test and all of the reasons we might need to sacrifice for the institutional LDS church.
Absolutely.

The bigger the test....the bigger the revelation directly from God.

No middle men allowed.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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