DHO's Attempted Gaslighting of Electroshock (EDIT: AVERSION) Therapy On Gay Individuals At BYU

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moksha
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Re: DHO's Attempted Gaslighting of Electroshock Therapy On Gay Individuals At BYU

Post by moksha » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:16 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:20 am
-electric aversion therapy was going on during Oaks' tenure at BYU.
-it was an approved PhD project.
-the head of the psychology department knew about and supported it, and even wrote the disclaimer that participants had to sign.
-nude photographs were used.
-a bonerometer sensor (pretty sure that's the correct name) was self-attached to the participant's penis.
-electrical shock was applied to the bicep.
-the toleration limit of the subject was measured to ensure that the pain could be dished out to the limits of their endurance.
I think there was a documentary film of this BYU practice called A Clockwork Orange.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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blazerb
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Re: DHO's Attempted Gaslighting of Electroshock Therapy On Gay Individuals At BYU

Post by blazerb » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:48 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:20 am
Conclusion: Dallin Oaks lied. He did not claim he was unaware of such activities; he categorically denied that they happened while was there. Pants on fire.
And when given a chance to "clarify" to the press, he declined and had no comment on the "discrepancy between his memory and the record" or something like that.

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Hagoth
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Re: DHO's Attempted Gaslighting of Electroshock Therapy On Gay Individuals At BYU

Post by Hagoth » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:59 pm

blazerb wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:48 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:20 am
Conclusion: Dallin Oaks lied. He did not claim he was unaware of such activities; he categorically denied that they happened while was there. Pants on fire.
And when given a chance to "clarify" to the press, he declined and had no comment on the "discrepancy between his memory and the record" or something like that.
Also, in a previous statement, he did not deny it but stated that he accepts no responsibility for it.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Cnsl1
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Re: DHO's Attempted Gaslighting of Electroshock Therapy On Gay Individuals At BYU

Post by Cnsl1 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:15 pm

How much difference we would feel about him if he said something like,

"Yes, I regret that happened under my watch. With the benefit of hindsight and further knowledge, we understand that type of therapy is ineffective and unethical, though at that time, researchers were sincerely searching for an effective therapeutic method to assist those through a very difficult personal concern. These volunteers who with knowledge of all the ramifications of the study--a study approved by a council of peers and a university ethics committee--agreed to the aversion therapy. While some volunteers reported the treatment successful, science indicated it was not viable, and not should be recommended. Of course, we now feel the design itself is flawed and that issues of these sort should be carefully and prayerfully considered, always with a petition to the Lord for further light and knowledge. We understand that God, through His infinitely superior understanding of the hearts and minds of every generation through time, guide us toward a more exalted state, depending on our obedience and sacrifice, our willingness to stay fast to the covenant path and follow the Lord's annoited."

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Palerider
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Re: DHO's Attempted Gaslighting of Electroshock Therapy On Gay Individuals At BYU

Post by Palerider » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:29 pm

Cnsl1 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:15 pm
How much difference we would feel about him if he said something like,

"Yes, I regret that happened under my watch. With the benefit of hindsight and further knowledge, we understand that type of therapy is ineffective and unethical, though at that time, researchers were sincerely searching for an effective therapeutic method to assist those through a very difficult personal concern. These volunteers who with knowledge of all the ramifications of the study--a study approved by a council of peers and a university ethics committee--agreed to the aversion therapy. While some volunteers reported the treatment successful, science indicated it was not viable, and not should be recommended. Of course, we now feel the design itself is flawed and that issues of these sort should be carefully and prayerfully considered, always with a petition to the Lord for further light and knowledge. We understand that God, through His infinitely superior understanding of the hearts and minds of every generation through time, guide us toward a more exalted state, depending on our obedience and sacrifice, our willingness to stay fast to the covenant path and follow the Lord's annoited."
I would at least see him as someone who meant well in spite of being wrongheaded, was honest and had integrity as opposed to a mendacious, conceited person who has a superiority complex and would say pretty much anything to cover his and the church's fanny.

But he still doesn't receive any more revelation than the next guy.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Hagoth
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Re: DHO's Attempted Gaslighting of Electroshock Therapy On Gay Individuals At BYU

Post by Hagoth » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:07 am

2bizE wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:35 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:35 pm
Where's 60 Minutes when you need it?
Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick
I sent a link to the latest MormonStories podcast to 60 minutes with a plea for someone to listen to it. Maybe enough voices will get them to notice. If you care to join me the email address is:

60min@cbsnews.com
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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2bizE
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Re: DHO's Attempted Gaslighting of Electroshock Therapy On Gay Individuals At BYU

Post by 2bizE » Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:01 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:07 am
2bizE wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:35 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:35 pm
Where's 60 Minutes when you need it?
Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick
I sent a link to the latest MormonStories podcast to 60 minutes with a plea for someone to listen to it. Maybe enough voices will get them to notice. If you care to join me the email address is:

60min@cbsnews.com
Nice. It would be wonderful for them to pick up this story
~2bizE

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moksha
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Re: DHO's Attempted Gaslighting of Electroshock Therapy On Gay Individuals At BYU

Post by moksha » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:29 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsSlnNx7mgY

Mormon Stories 1505: Did Dallin H. Oaks Lie about BYU Electroshock Therapy?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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stealthbishop
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Re: DHO's Attempted Gaslighting of Electroshock (EDIT: AVERSION THERAPY) Therapy On Gay Individuals At BYU

Post by stealthbishop » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:28 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:11 am
Just so everyone is clear.. electro shock therapy is often what people say when they mean electro convulsive therapy, or electro convulsive shock therapy, which is still a viable treatment for severe depression.

The controversial therapy that was conducted at BYU in the 70's and maybe as late as the early 80s was aversion therapy for homosexuality, that often, but not always, included small electrical shocks paired with homoerotic images. The idea was that pairing the noxious stimulus with the homoerotic image would cause a person to become averse to such images and thus eventually go straight. It's a behavioral therapy, and it obviously didn't work even a little bit. BYU didn't come up with this idea, but they definitely tried it out.
Early on, I think from about 1952 to about 68 or early 70s, homosexuality was considered a psych disorder in the US.

Behaviorism was big in the 70s and it does help explain a lot of human behavior, but obviously falls short. Many behavioral therapies work great, but aversion therapy does not. Well, at least it doesn't work to help change sexual orientation. Aversion therapy is most commonly used as a drug or alcohol treatment, like alcoholics taking antabuse, which is a medication that causes stomach aches and nausea if combined with alcohol. It's still a bit controversial.
Thanks for clarifying this. I will make an update/edit to the Subject line to be more accurate.
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

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moksha
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Re: DHO's Attempted Gaslighting of Electroshock (EDIT: AVERSION) Therapy On Gay Individuals At BYU

Post by moksha » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:43 am

Dallin Oaks found out the hard way:

Image
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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