Fight The New Drug

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
dogbite
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by dogbite » Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:29 pm

Wonderment wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:34 am
Bonfire stated:
The suggestion that pornography keeps child molestors from abuse and rapists from assault would require that at some point these would cease their need for such a prescription, yet that is not the case.
This statement was actually made. It's not a straw man.
I disagree with Bonfire. But on this one point, he (or she) is correct in that this statement was made here.
No it wasn't. The statement above is a causative statement. The statement made was correlative. That cultures where porn was available had lower rates of these assaults compared against cultures where it was more heavily restricted. There was further discussion of what may have been causative of this but it was unclear as to the specifics.

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Hagoth
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by Hagoth » Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:15 pm

Wonderment wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:34 am
If you go to a big multi-national website like Porn Hub ( owned by Mind Geek, a company out of Montreal), and type in the search bar "teenager" or
"young girls" or "unconscious teen rape" or any combination like that, hundreds of those videos exist.
Yikes. Have you done that? I'll have to take your word for it because I'm not touching it with a ten-foot pole, but I'd like to know if this is true, because I can't imagine it's legal, even in Canada, and I would hope someone will take action.

I would like to add that I'm pretty sure Alas was NOT advocating for the production of child porn. She's just paraphrasing what someone else has said.

Here's a purely hypothetical question. Considering the state of computer graphics today, what would be the ethical implications of porn that was made without any human actors at all? Would it be just as bad? Less bad because, even though potentially degrading to people in general, it would not be degrading to any specific persons? Would it be worse because it would be even more disconnected from real human intimacy? And what about robots? The reason I ask this is that there was a recent news story where a local church leader (or former leader - can't remember) was arrested for child porn and his defense was that they weren't "real people." I was trying to figure out what the heck he meant by that and all I could come up with was computer graphics.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Wonderment
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by Wonderment » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:24 pm

Hagoth, I completely agree with you that the church's viewpoint on masturbation/ pornography is ridiculous, and shaming people about that is harmful. That's a given for me. Masturbation is a normal part of growing into adulthood, and so is viewing erotica or porn, because humans with human bodies are wired for reproduction. So they are curious about it.

Conservative churches ( and it's not only COJOCLDS, it's many others, including evangelical fundamentalists) need to get over this ridiculous stance. Almost no one can meet the church's strict behavior standards.

Viewing porn is a very intense experience for some people, but so is yoga, or 30 day fruit juice cleanses, or learning to play rock guitar, or video gaming. Some people become obsessed with these activities and become emotionally distanced from their partners and from any other relationships.

( I think that, in general, people like Bonfire might be trolls from TBM sites. I'll write more about pros and cons of porn media - including CGI or cartoons - a little later). -- Wndr.

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Angel
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by Angel » Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:30 pm

Wonderment wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:53 pm
Angel wrote:
At work we go through "safe colleges" training, with stats on our students - almost 25% of female students have been assaulted at some point. For most of them, it is "no big deal", they have moved on, do not obsess over it, it is something equivalent to having been in a car accident, or someone stealing your bike - a common occurrence, but you do not obsess over it or consider yourself ruined for it - just part of life, treated like no big deal. That is the healthy way to treat it - no big deal.
You are saying that sexual assault of women is "no big deal" ? It's no big deal if women get sexually assaulted? It's just the same as a traffic accident or a bike theft?
I don't think that's what you mean to say. A sexual assault is intentional, directed by the perpetrator directly onto that woman's body. It's not like a traffic accident, which is happenstance. Traffic accidents are not purposeful, but sexual assaults are indeed purposeful.
Bike thefts are a violation of personal property, yes. But sexual assault, where the perpetrator directly puts their hands on another body and violates someone's personal space and private body parts is much more serious an offense.

I think you might mean to say that sexual assault should not be viewed by the church as the reason why a woman should be ruined for life and considered a licked cupcake or a chewed piece of gum. I think you meant to comment on the church's belief that a woman is ruined in the eyes of the church, or the eyes of God.
I certainly don't think that being the victim of a sexual assault means that a victim should be considered ruined by the church.

But sexual assault can cause a serious emotional or psychological scar, regardless of whether or one is a member of the church. - Wndr.

We dealt with it - that high priest is in jail for the rest of their life (doubt they will live to 94), no probation under Jessica's law. The point is not to live as a victim, not to let it define your life, to move on. Deal with it just like someone stole you car, or burned your house - make them pay, then move on.

Purity culture does not allow people to move on - the crap yw lessons that you are like a board with a nail - a hole that never heals, that your worth is some white dress, the whole holy virgin - every purity lesson is ripping open wounds for those kids. It's bs. The worth of women is not between anyone's legs. Worthy? Let's just think what makes someone actually worth something.

Would you rather your little girl believed - God doesn't love them, they aren't protected, they aren't clean, no special honeymoon for them....

Or would you prefer your little girl to know 1/4 went through the same crap, it's not some punishment from God, their worth is NOT their virginity -not their physical body- that's all just laws of nature. We live, learn, own your self - no "priest" has authority over you, that's all b.s., your worth is you - career- education- NOT having kids, barefoot and pregnant slave.

The experience frees you, let's you see through the bs, or it kills you.

Kill purity culture. No one's worth is bodily functions - worth is your brain, your strength, character. Sex is nothing but animal instincts, laws of nature, nothing more.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Hagoth
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by Hagoth » Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:40 pm

Angel wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:30 pm
Let's just think what makes someone actually worth something.
For example, does having a priesthood pronounced upon you by some guy down the street actually give you additional worth? Does having people call you a prophet give you more worth, even though you are unable to prophesy? Does being called a witness of the name of Jesus Christ actually attach you to Jesus Christ in a way that is above and beyond everyone else?

But these guys in their make-believe emperor's clothes determine the "worthiness" standards that determine the worth of people in the church. It's trumped-up nothing layered on top of more nothing. Let's see you guys actually DO something with that most-powerful-force-in-the-universe that you claim to posses (e.g. when you visit a hospital always bring a few people out with you).

Here's a common example. A bishop extorts a masturbation confession out of a teenager by laying on the guilt. He then publicly shames the kid by not allowing him to bless, pass, or partake of the sacrament, but he must attend the meeting where everyone can scowl at him as the tray passes him by. The idea of a religion that claims to be THE church of Jesus Christ telling someone they are not worthy to take advantage of Christ's sacrifice is ludicrous. And it is emotional abuse.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Angel
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by Angel » Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:20 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:40 pm
Angel wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:30 pm
Let's just think what makes someone actually worth something.
For example, does having a priesthood pronounced upon you by some guy down the street actually give you additional worth? Does having people call you a prophet give you more worth, even though you are unable to prophesy? Does being called a witness of the name of Jesus Christ actually attach you to Jesus Christ in a way that is above and beyond everyone else?

But these guys in their make-believe emperor's clothes determine the "worthiness" standards that determine the worth of people in the church. It's trumped-up nothing layered on top of more nothing. Let's see you guys actually DO something with that most-powerful-force-in-the-universe that you claim to posses (e.g. when you visit a hospital always bring a few people out with you).

Here's a common example. A bishop extorts a masturbation confession out of a teenager by laying on the guilt. He then publicly shames the kid by not allowing him to bless, pass, or partake of the sacrament, but he must attend the meeting where everyone can scowl at him as the tray passes him by. The idea of a religion that claims to be THE church of Jesus Christ telling someone they are not worthy to take advantage of Christ's sacrifice is ludicrous. And it is emotional abuse.
It either kills you, or you see it for the bs that it is, and you become free 8-)
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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moksha
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by moksha » Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:02 am

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:15 pm
Wonderment wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:34 am
If you go to a big multi-national website like Porn Hub ( owned by Mind Geek, a company out of Montreal), and type in the search bar "teenager" or
"young girls" or "unconscious teen rape" or any combination like that, hundreds of those videos exist.
Yikes. Have you done that? I'll have to take your word for it because I'm not touching it with a ten-foot pole, but I'd like to know if this is true, because I can't imagine it's legal, even in Canada, and I would hope someone will take action.
I doubt Wonderment has done that. It probably comes from the fevered mind of some religious pot-stirrer who has an obsessive disorder to cover all shoulders with garments. Canada's laws are not lax in protection.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by Hagoth » Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:50 am

OK, how about this.

What if you came across some CGI videos of aliens or fantasy beings with non-human genitals performing bizarre sex acts? Would that be pornography? Why or why not? Not a trick question or an analogy or anything, just a thought experiment. Maybe it depends on how the individual responds to it?

Actually, come to think of it, did I just describe Avatar?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Cnsl1
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by Cnsl1 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:34 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:50 am
OK, how about this.

What if you came across some CGI videos of aliens or fantasy beings with non-human genitals performing bizarre sex acts? Would that be pornography? Why or why not? Not a trick question or an analogy or anything, just a thought experiment. Maybe it depends on how the individual responds to it?

Actually, come to think of it, did I just describe Avatar?
That's an excellent question. I'm guessing it's considered porn and I'm guessing it probably has its followers. Would it be legal? I can't imagine that it wouldn't.

Carrying that thought farther, what if the cgi videos featured underage people in sex acts? Even though no actual underage humans were used in the productions, I'm guessing they would still be considered illegal. I'm also guessing that these are issues already addressed legally, and are probably considered bad and are punishable because the vast majority of people would be against it, which is how most moral and ethics lines get drawn. That's my guess, but I don't know and am not interested in finding out. It does bring up an interesting moral and ethical dilemma, however. Where is the line?

Regarding those free porn sites like pornhub, what little experience I've had in viewing specifically indicate that everyone involved are adults. Now, is that true? I've no idea, and like Hagoth, I want nowhere near anything involving underage people, or coerced or forced people. I've not specifically looked, but i doubt it's as readily available as Wonderment suggested, because it's still illegal in I think every country. This is stuff that the vast majority of people are very very very much against, and for good reason.

Could Cgi be used to placate those whose sexual desires that fall beyond the normal moral boundaries of societies, or do we still say that there are some desires that are so deviant that we don't even want to pretend? Freud proposed a defense mechanism he called sublimation, which suggested that some people found socially acceptable outlets for morally reprehensible desires, or presses for behaviors outside social norms. For example, beating people up could land you in jail, unless you do it through acceptable channels like becoming an MMA fighter.. or maybe a cop, heh. Or, do it through video games. Or, if you like to cut people up, maybe you become a surgeon. Now, I'm not suggesting that all surgeons have sadistic desires or that most cops want to beat people up, but that it is possible to find a socially acceptable channel for some unsociable and illegal behaviors.

Could cgi or art provide that safely to some? Would it encourage deviant behaviors or curb them? I don't know. Exposure to violent video games tends to correlate with more violent behaviors, but the jury is still out as to the extent of the correlation, based on what I remember of the research. But, encouraging aggressive behavior from a therpeutic sense does not "get the anger out" as I'm sure Alas will attest. Would allowing access to cgi deviant sexual material help or exacerbate those who are drawn to those deviances?

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Hagoth
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by Hagoth » Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:54 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:34 am
Hagoth wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:50 am
What if you came across some CGI videos of aliens or fantasy beings with non-human genitals performing bizarre sex acts?
Would it be legal? I can't imagine that it wouldn't.
I agree. Most people probably wouldn't respond to it the way they would to human porn. I'm sure some would, but then some people get aroused by looking at shoes. I have a hard time convincing myself that images of children, even if they are CGI, should ever be considered acceptable. Not as bad as actually using real children, of course, but certainly not anywhere near neutral.

I worked in the videogame industry for many years and from time to time I worked with CG characters that seemed pretty sexy to me. I would think, this is crazy, it's just a few thousand polygons and a texture map. It was drawn by Dan, two seats down from me, and modeled by Jenn over there on the other side of the studio, and textured by Karl in the next cubicle. There is no person here at all. I find that fascinating and I think it could be the basis of a really interesting neurochemistry study.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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wtfluff
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by wtfluff » Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:25 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:54 am
I worked in the videogame industry for many years and from time to time I worked with CG characters that seemed pretty sexy to me. I would think, this is crazy, it's just a few thousand polygons and a texture map. It was drawn by Dan, two seats down from me, and modeled by Jenn over there on the other side of the studio, and textured by Karl in the next cubicle. There is no person here at all. I find that fascinating and I think it could be the basis of a really interesting neurochemistry study.
Hey, while you're at it, can you do a neurochemistry study on the effects of the Twilight series on (too many, but not all) middle-aged mormon women?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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stealthbishop
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by stealthbishop » Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:48 am

FIGHT THE OLD DRUG:

PURITY CULTURE


Way more damaging to human beings. Super clear that it is. I wish I had protected my children from purity culture. I know it's not a drug but what if we labeled those who advocated for purity culture as addicted to it? Not suggesting we should, but it's an interesting thought experiment.
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

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Hagoth
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by Hagoth » Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:50 am

wtfluff wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:25 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:54 am
I worked in the videogame industry for many years and from time to time I worked with CG characters that seemed pretty sexy to me. I would think, this is crazy, it's just a few thousand polygons and a texture map. It was drawn by Dan, two seats down from me, and modeled by Jenn over there on the other side of the studio, and textured by Karl in the next cubicle. There is no person here at all. I find that fascinating and I think it could be the basis of a really interesting neurochemistry study.
Hey, while you're at it, can you do a neurochemistry study on the effects of the Twilight series on (too many, but not all) middle-aged mormon women?
Oh man. I was at Comicon in San Diego one year (not as an attendee but as a speaker) and they were premiering one of the Twilight movies at a nearby theater. The line was around the block and I was shocked to see that about 80% of the crowd were women over 40.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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fetchface
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by fetchface » Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:46 pm

Bonfire wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:56 pm
Why do you think slavery is an indication of immorality?
I would have thought it would be obvious that enslaving other humans was immoral. Is this not so?
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
My blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/

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alas
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by alas » Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:31 pm

Bonfire wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:27 am
If a medicine exists that placates bad behavior by substitute without expiration then there is no healing, only supression.

The suggestion that pornography keeps child molestors from abuse and rapists from assault would require that at some point these would cease their need for such a prescription, yet that is not the case.

In contrast cannabis is a medicine that can replace opiates yet does not require consistent reuptake and is therefore a healing intervention.

Furthermore supporting men and women and children who participate in producing pornography creates an industry that encourages human trafficking, disintegrates sexual intimacy, and inspires others to cease productivity for a chance to profit from the gratification of their bodies.

For the reason of repeated consumption and withdrawal that contributes to crime and sexual distortion and sloth, pornography does not heal, is not medicine, and cannot be considered therapeutic.
I had a long explanation written up but the computer ate it. Munch munch. So this replacement will have to do.

First off, porn would not be like a “medicine that placates bad behavior” but more like a way of helping to control bad behavior. Second, no person who knows what they are talking about talks about “curing” pedophilia. It is about controlling bad behavior. There is no cure, only day in and day out, controlling pedophilia. Next, it is used in therapy all the time for various things, not something I ever used, but then if I had been working with pedophiles, I would just strangle them and call them in good control of their urges.

So, putting it bluntly, the adult porn would be used to help the guy jack off, which then reduces the urge temporarily. This makes it easier for the guy to avoid watching the children on the merry go round or at the beach and staring at them while fantasizing about sex with them. It also associates adults from the pictures with sexual response in good old fashioned behavior therapy. So, naked adult, respond sexually. Then walk away from the children playing so he does not reinforce the wrong stimuli. The attraction to children will still be there, but he isn’t reinforcing bad behavior, but reinforcing good behavior. He can’t look at kiddy porn, because that reinforces the connection between children and sexual arousal. He can’t spend time watching children because then in his mind he creates his own kiddy porn. He needs to be taught better ways to cope with stress, so he isn’t tempted to use sex or sexual fantasies as stress reduction. All this while teaching him some social skills so he doesn’t just strike out with women and with a lot of luck and self control on his part, maybe he won’t reoffend and hurt another child.

Controlling pedophilia is like controlling anything else. He doesn’t have to lose his urge or get off the “medicine” any more than I am ever going to get off my medicine for diabetes. I have to be aware of my behavior on a constant basis in order to control my diabetes, for the rest of my life, everyday all day, practice self control. Everyday, watching what I eat and making sure I get some exercise and take my meds. Same with a pedophile. Everyday, all day he has to be aware of his thoughts and what he is putting into his mind. It isn’t about curing, it is about not reoffending, it is about teaching him to control his bad behavior. He can’t be fixed, only controlled.

The comparison of substituting porn for sex with children as substituting MJ for opioids to control pain is a bad comparison. More like teaching meditation to control pain. You are actually teaching and reinforcing behavior. Using porn isn’t a substitute, but changing his behavior from looking at children and seeing sex objects to looking at adult women and seeing sex objects. Don’t look at kiddy porn and fantasize about children, or watch children and fantasize about children. Look at adult women and fantasize about sex, even if the only adult women are in pictures, then jack off, not just fantasize, because then his mind jumps to children.

And, I don’t give a sh*t about adults making porn. Their business. They don’t need to do anything to be more productive, just stay the h away from children. It doesn’t increase human trafficking or anything else, so get off the false scare tactics. Yes, like *any* and *all* industry, it needs government regulation to avoid certain temptations like human trafficking and using underage models and actors.

Wonderment
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by Wonderment » Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:59 pm

Oh man. I was at Comicon in San Diego one year (not as an attendee but as a speaker) and they were premiering one of the Twilight movies at a nearby theater. The line was around the block and I was shocked to see that about 80% of the crowd were women over 40.
Sorry for the delay in replying. First, I find purity culture to be very toxic, which I why I am no longer a member of any church, including COJCOLDS. Purity culture is prevalent across many organized religions, including evangelical Christianity, Islam, orthodox Judaism, etc. It is highly toxic, extremist, and almost no one can live up to it (although many people pretend that they are doing so). In the wide spectrum of human sexual behavior, purity culture is very extremist.

The Twilight books, which were badly written, badly edited, and full of superfluous filler and useless conversation, are an example of purity culture, combined with a Victorian sense of chivalry. That whole story should have been written in 25 pages. Stupid,boring, melodramatic, soap opera chivalry.
It's a Disney fantasy of chaste Beauty and the Beast. Spoiler alert - The vampire chastely watches Bella sleep for night after night until they marry, then he rescues her from her mundane, boring, world and brings her into his world. It's like the prince or the Mormon husband who rescues the young bride and is responsible for pulling her though the veil at the end. It's like a temple story. Mormon women will relate to it, although it's a boring, badly written story. - Wndr.
Last edited by Wonderment on Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by Wonderment » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:15 am

So for people who manage to escape church purity culture, the world of porn looks like a panacea of relief. It's unfettered, it's fun, it's delicious, there are no rules, shaming, or guilt, it's very intense and satisfying to a human body who has been starved of any sexual activity and who has been shamed
and condemned to outer darkness for even thinking about sex or trying to explore one's own sexuality. "Wickedness was never happiness", we are told. But, so is being completely denied a human body's natural inclinations and responses. That's not happiness either. Being cut off from our own sexuality is like being in a prison. 98% of teen age boys have tried masturbation, but if all those who have tried it would admit to it, then there would be no one to pass the sacrament. So it's a code of "omerta" -- of rigid silence.

People into porn are told that for women, porn is especially liberating and empowering. Women don't have to be the "gatekeepers" anymore. They can be as freely acting and into to it as men are. There are no more strictures, no more behavior expectations. You can ask for whatever you want. You don't have to be a prude or an uptight virgin any more. The sky is the limit. Go for it wildly, swing by the chandelier from your heels, scream as much as you want, make sure your entire street knows you are really, really into mind-blowing multiple orgasms for 6 hours a day. The old joke is, "The sex was so intense, that even the neighbors had a cigarette." As a woman, you are encouraged to be completely free, the more independent the better, so the saying goes. Act just like the (barely) 18 year olds in the videos, because of course, that is the standard for how all women should behave in bed.

Except that in porn, there are behavior standards for women that can be as rigid as church culture, but it's the other end of the extreme. Church purity culture and porn culture are two extremes on two opposite ends. More explanation to follow below.

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alas
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by alas » Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:07 pm

Wonderment wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:15 am
So for people who manage to escape church purity culture, the world of porn looks like a panacea of relief. It's unfettered, it's fun, it's delicious, there are no rules, shaming, or guilt, it's very intense and satisfying to a human body who has been starved of any sexual activity and who has been shamed
and condemned to outer darkness for even thinking about sex or trying to explore one's own sexuality. "Wickedness was never happiness", we are told. But, so is being completely denied a human body's natural inclinations and responses. That's not happiness either. Being cut off from our own sexuality is like being in a prison. 98% of teen age boys have tried masturbation, but if all those who have tried it would admit to it, then there would be no one to pass the sacrament. So it's a code of "omerta" -- of rigid silence.

People into porn are told that for women, porn is especially liberating and empowering. Women don't have to be the "gatekeepers" anymore. They can be as freely acting and into to it as men are. There are no more strictures, no more behavior expectations. You can ask for whatever you want. You don't have to be a prude or an uptight virgin any more. The sky is the limit. Go for it wildly, swing by the chandelier from your heels, scream as much as you want, make sure your entire street knows you are really, really into mind-blowing multiple orgasms for 6 hours a day. The old joke is, "The sex was so intense, that even the neighbors had a cigarette." As a woman, you are encouraged to be completely free, the more independent the better, so the saying goes. Act just like the (barely) 18 year olds in the videos, because of course, that is the standard for how all women should behave in bed.

Except that in porn, there are behavior standards for women that can be as rigid as church culture, but it's the other end of the extreme. Church purity culture and porn culture are two extremes on two opposite ends. More explanation to follow below.
No, porn isn’t good for the women involved. Or I guess for the male actors doing it, and I won’t pretend it is good for the men who view it, my only point is that it is not what the porn fighters claim either.

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moksha
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by moksha » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:29 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:50 am
OK, how about this.

What if you came across some CGI videos of aliens or fantasy beings with non-human genitals performing bizarre sex acts? Would that be pornography?
I was at the University of Utah when the John Birch publishing President of the University told the Student Union board they had sinned for the Friday night screening of Fritz the Cat in the Little Theatre. Woe be unto that generation for watching such works. Of course, that was Disney-type drawing animation and not CGI, but in the eyes of the conservatives it was Sodom and Gomorrah revisited. Naughty cats!!!
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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moksha
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Re: Fight The New Drug

Post by moksha » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:41 am

moksha wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:29 am
Fritz the Cat
Could be worse, the theatre manager at BYU was informed by the administration that the PG-rated Bless the Beasts and the Children was "too real for our people". One only had to observe BYU students to understand the truth of that statement.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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