NOM

I think this was one of the most damaging things about my experience in the LDS tradition. I believe my wife and our marriage was damaged by it. I believe my children were damaged by it. It has many manifestations from shame about pre-marital sex, to LGBTQ+ issues, to masturbation/pornography, to women's clothing/modesty, etc. I think it is an American thing since as someone else on the board mentioned, Europe and other places don't have these issues as much. But the LDS church put purity culture on steroids. So much for inspired revelation. What a mess!

I agree. Purity culture is toxic.

Includes the word of wisdom. That's all about ritual purity too.

Amen! I think this is part of much of the damage that is done in the church. I think the claim to Truth is probably part of the issue. Because the church is True, chastity is True. And any pet peeve of on of our old man prophets is True.

I have tried to root our purity culture for myself and my kids by getting clinical about sexual things and global about other cultural obsessions like swearing or the word of wisdom. Seeing a culture that has a conflicting view has helped me get past a lot of my purity programming. I'm nervous about where my kids will land, I'm in personally uncharted waters...

What does non-purity culture look like for you all?

Blame our Puritan ancestors. The most strict of the Puritans left England and came to Massachusetts where in isolation they got more extreme in their purity culture. They had a big influence on American culture that is way bigger than their numbers would indicate, so you can thank my Pilgrim ancestors who came on the Mayflower because they started it and that was such a big part of Joseph Smiths culture.

But purity culture was probably the thing about the church that hurt even more than the child sexual abuse. The abuse started before I knew anything about sex, so when I first figured out what my father was even doing, I didn’t even begin to think it was my fault, because I knew I had not chosen that. But all the lessons in young women’s emphasized purity, not choice. A mangled cake didn’t decide to get mangled. Some person choose to do it to the helpless cake. But it was still totally worthless. ALL the lessons went like that. Choice didn’t matter, only what was done to your body. You as a person had no worth, only having a clean and untouched body. Your mind and education didn’t matter, only having and raising good Mormon children. Who you were didn’t really matter, only your husband’s righteousness really mattered. Things might not be stated outright, but the message was clear. Females were worthless baby making boxes and you needed to keep the box pure. Then the temple ceremony taught me that I didn’t “inherit” anything from God, that I only got what my husband earned and not if my husband didn’t give t too me. I would be one of many who belonged to my husband and he would take over and be my God. That idea is less clear in the current ceremony, but when you understand the old ceremony then it is still there. My only worth was in serving my husband/god. I wasn’t a daughter of God. God was just my father in law and God didn’t love me as an individual, just as the property of my husband. I wasn’t guilty of sex, but I was worthless because of it and no good man would ever marry me, therefore, I was eternally nothing and nothing I could do would ever change that.

Yup, wonderful thing to teach people.

Mr. Clean and the Clorox company would object.

Linked wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:32 pm

What does non-purity culture look like for you all?

That's a good question. I feel like even with working on this for years, I still am not totally 100% experienced in what it is because it was never practiced in my family nor did I fully create an environment for my children where purity culture did not exist. I was late in realizing a lot of this stuff.

With regards to sex, perhaps, making good choices, and consent. More conversations on safe sex physically and emotionally. That there are moral and ethical issues about sex. That there is nothing wrong for children and teenagers to touch their bodies and that they shouldn't feel ashamed of their bodies. That sexual experimentation is a normal part of development and it's normal to be curious about our bodies. That there are ethical and moral issues about pornography and sex trafficking but that most human beings will want to look at pictures or videos of people having sex and that this is normal and not an addiction. I would discuss differences in orientation, gender identity, and expression, etc. and send an unequivocal message that my children will always be celebrated for who they are and not be shamed or rejected. I would teach that modesty is a virtue of not trying to show off too much or brag or always be the center of attention constantly and that it is not about women's or young girls' shoulders or other body parts or that it is just a woman's issue. That whether we have sex or not it has absolutely no bearing on our worth or worthiness as a human being. Rape and sexual abuse are never the victim's fault. That old men who have the veneer of wisdom should never have control or a say-so about our bodies and that there are many past examples of that approach doing significant harm. Creating a safe environment to talk about sex where there is not so much tension and the stakes are not so sky high.

Just some thoughts off hand.

It's all a male heirarchy thing - hold males to the same standards as females, and that would take care of a lot of it.

Equal in nurturing kids, equal in cooking and cleaning, equally yoked in providing and protecting. Me and mine are slowly moving there, no longer living in separate spheres.

Angel wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:16 pm

It's all a male heirarchy thing - hold males to the same standards as females, and that would take care of a lot of it.

Equal in nurturing kids, equal in cooking and cleaning, equally yoked in providing and protecting. Me and mine are slowly moving there, no longer living in separate spheres.

Nailed it!

Male domination of women, control of sex in all it's facets, shaming, fear, funny underwear, all while protecting the sexual misbehavior of it's male leadership. It's pure madness that this corporation of sexual control was started by a pedophilic narcissistic sexual predator. I'd bet money that this aspect of the corporate culture is the most harmful, especially long term. I was just chatting with a friend last night that even after a dozen years of freedom from the daily mormon grind, it's still a crap ton of crap to process and will likely not all be conquered over our remaining lives.

I agree. This is all wrapped in the robes of the evils of Patriarchy. 100%

We wouldn't be where we are now if there had been equality of men and women in the Christian (and therefore the LDS) tradition.

alas wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:00 pm

Blame our Puritan ancestors. The most strict of the Puritans left England and came to Massachusetts where in isolation they got more extreme in their purity culture. They had a big influence on American culture that is way bigger than their numbers would indicate, so you can thank my Pilgrim ancestors who came on the Mayflower because they started it and that was such a big part of Joseph Smiths culture.

Excellent point. I had Puritan ancestors as well.