NOM

I first want to say I don't want to create a political discussion but I have issues and questions ? We know the church leans heavy republican that's ok but since my faith crisis I have become aware of both sides of the political spectrum. I at one time was a Trumper but now I am caught somewhere between Biden and Trump !! I dislike how Trump tried to dis our country over the election and I think Biden is an idiot !! I try not to get into political discussions at work or church . Is any one else where I'm at how do you deal with it ??

I was VERY conservative/republican all through my teens and early adulthood. To give you an idea I thought that Ronald Reagan was a little too liberal . After my faith crisis I began to view the political parties as just another form of cult. Most will vote for an "R" or a "D" regardless of who the candidate is because they don't like the "other".

So now I look for good people. If they exemplify traits that I admire (kindness, compassion, intelligence, humility, judgement, etc.) then I vote for them and ignore the party they are affiliated with. If they don't then I don't vote for them regardless of what party they are affiliated with. That means (for example in my local city council election, I ended up voting for candidates from 3 different parties because I believed they were the best 3 people running. In some elections, our recent Secretary of State election for example, I didn't vote for any of the candidates, because none of them exemplified qualities I admire.

Those are my $.02

-lost

My political views changed significantly once I realized there was no longer a need to care about what some really old men in Salt Lake think on issues. Once I realized there was no need for me to hold on to positions on, say, gay marriage or women's rights just because seem out of touch old men taught me to oppose them, I realized I had no grounds whatsoever for continuing to think I should oppose them. There were a lot of dominoes that fell after that, and I find myself on the other side of the political spectrum from where I once was. And I am actively trying to undo some of the wrong I did as a member by participating in social justice and pro-LGBTQ+ organizations. I have some things to atone for.

And it made me realize how much conservative political views are pushed in Church meetings - when you have a conservative mindset, you tend to not notice or care, but once your mindset becomes more liberal you realize how unwelcome liberals are often made to feel in Church meetings, and how most members don't really think about that because they assume everyone is conservative. And really, very few members care much if they do offend liberals. The Church is full of arrogant blowhards - but to be fair, so is the rest of the world.

I write this with no intent to offend anyone, start a debate or sound snarky so my apologies if anyone is offended.

I had this thought a while back: I think the republicans and democrats can be split down the Old and New Testaments. The GOP has views matching the Old Testamant: An eye for an eye, wars are fine, harsh punishments for minor violations, etc. The Dems are more similar to Jesus' NT teachings: take care of the poor, charity, turn the other cheek (less likely to want to go to war), forgiveness & understanding.

Jesus was clearly a progressive while the conservatives in the NT were the Sadducees and Pharisees, who were still pushing the out-dated Law of Moses.

I've always been more progressive than the average TBM but after I lost me belief in mormonism I became much more liberal.

"The first rule of Religion/Politics club is..."






Yeah.

We don't follow that Mantra 'round here.

Life is change. We are not fixed static things. Each of us is a process. You are the change taking place inside you. The person at the end of this conversation will not be the person who began it. The you who wakes up in the morning will not be the same you who went to sleep. It is impossible to fix a person in time. Your essence lies in your unfolding.

You are not done becoming you.

You shouldn't expect your views to be static any more than you yourself are static. It means you're growing and developing.

The illusion of certainty and constancy is one of the symptoms of religion. Life isn't like that, but death could be said to be.

Any smart parts of this post are courtesy of Brian Stavely in Empire's Ruin.

As a TBM I used to be extremely conservative and right wing and felt it was my duty as a church member to be so. I used to scold extended family members who were TBM but liberal politically. To this day I still think that a liberal TBM is an oxymoron and hence a little hypocritical.

I was influenced by James E. Talmage’s evisceration of the Catholic Church in “The Great Apostasy”. His argument was largely based on the idea that priesthood keys cannot be passed down unbroken through unworthy hands—-his book took great lengths to itemize the evil deeds of every pope and antipope through the dark ages—-so the current pope cannot have St. Peter’s keys.

That is the implied stance of the church—-that all who have held the keys to the kingdom must be beyond reproach in order to worthily pass them down to our present day. As JS said “amen to the priesthood of the man who practices unrighteous dominion”.

Thus my reasoning was that God must be extremely right wing. Otherwise so many of his mouthpieces would not spew so much right wing propaganda through the last 2 centuries.

Today the church is painted into a corner where it must stay tacitly on the right wing spectrum because it can’t ever directly condemn the more politically radical sayings of BY, JFS, SWK, ETB et al without undercutting it’s own claim to a perfect line of worthy authority.

To ever become an open and liberal minded church the TSCC would have to give up its claim to being the “One True Church” and admit to being just another church “fumbling its way towards the light” like everyone else. That’s like asking a narcissist to admit they’re not that special.

I just followed the Brethren and waited in anticipation for Jesus to return. Then like Lady Gaga, I switched Baristas!

Now I just hate everybody on both sides.

Where’s the middle with common sense and duty to protect our rights and freedoms? Why can’t we stop hating each other and find a path to a better society?

I know we tend to avoid politics here so please ignore if you don't want to see it...

So I have been reliably conservative for my life... my parents (never Mormon) were conservative and I think that just kind of put me on that path... joining Mormonism definitely made that connection tighter, but even after I left I was in that "center-right" mode.

I spend more time with politics than religion and have been on Twitter doing it for about 10 years along with doing some projects with political people... when Trump announced he was running in 2015 I was very anti-Trump because I thought he was against everything that was "good" about conservatism.

Watching everyone just throw away their prior stances to fit the Trump mold was horrifying to me - it really forced me to just abandon my own political beliefs and start from scratch. By that point I was more open to gay marriage and social issues, but it just was tough because everything just got transformed into emotional, angry appeals.

I was doing a radio show with some prominent people here and one of them is a former House member who you'd recognize if you follow politics. I was talking with him a lot that night and I asked why he would support Trump knowing that you could still with the White House with someone else that didn't bring so much baggage and hate. His response was 'you cannot buy or create the kind of emotional movement that Trump is creating. It might have some problems, but what he is building is worth it.'

It was the first moment I really stopped and thought that Trump was effectively building a religious movement through politics where it wasn't even about the political positions but just about going after the "right people" while making it completely emotion based.

The biggest irony? That House member is now as anti-Trump as anyone and did everything he could to stop him in 2020.

FWIW I am now politically with Red Ryder - I hate everyone and while I am very much anti-Trump, I am not a reliable Democrat either... I'm someone who can go both ways depending on who is running and what they're looking to do.

But to answer your bigger question - I have found that Twitter (yes, Twitter) is a great place to have an outlet to find people you like to get news from and to get that political anger/discussions/etc out so you don't have to do it with friends, coworkers, etc. I always cringe when a friend/coworker discovers my personal Twitter that is about politics because I HATE discussing politics with people, but it really is a great outlet as long as you don't allow yourself to get sucked in too deep with people who are on there to troll and make you angry. My one final tip is to find people who are reasonable from both sides of the aisle to follow because it's good to know what both sides are talking about especially from people who aren't trying to build a brand and make $$ off of outrage... and there are good follows on both sides without question.

Zeezrom wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:11 pm

I was influenced by James E. Talmage’s evisceration of the Catholic Church in “The Great Apostasy”. His argument was largely based on the idea that priesthood keys cannot be passed down unbroken through unworthy hands—-his book took great lengths to itemize the evil deeds of every pope and antipope through the dark ages—-so the current pope cannot have St. Peter’s keys.

When I was a kid the Catholic church was public enemy number one. Funny how Mormons became so much more accepting of Catholics once they stood up and looked around and saw that they were both on the same political team when it came to keeping gay people from getting married.

Zeezrom wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:11 pm

To ever become an open and liberal minded church the TSCC would have to give up its claim to being the “One True Church” and admit to being just another church “fumbling its way towards the light” like everyone else. That’s like asking a narcissist to admit they’re not that special.

I think they could easily become an open minded church with a few policy adjustments and take credit for what works and place blame for what didn’t. Look at the language in the race and the priesthood essay. We no longer….

From the few honest conversations I’ve had with TBM’s it feels like they are ready for the church to be more universal. They just refuse to agitate for change in fear of going against the brethren.

It sounds like both the brethren and politicians could use term limits.

I’m a registered Republican, but have never voted straight Republican. I review the candidates and vote According to my conscience regardless of what the church desires. I support Biden currently and cannot stand Donald “grab ‘‘em by the pu$$y” Trump. He has surely brought out the wackos from the woodwork.

My vote registration card has said Independent for many years, but I feel like a forgotten demographic.

I'm way more liberal than the typical red state TBM, but less liberal than some people from the northwest.

I try to like Biden because I dislike Trump so much, and just about everything about Trump. I hate hearing vitriol about Biden from the local conservatives who love Trump, and I feel a desire to defend the guy if only because I'm happy Trump isn't still the president. But I've never been a huge fan of Biden.

I've not backed a winning president very often. I voted for Reagan then missed on the next several... Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush, Obama, Obama, and Trump before finally voting a winner again in Biden.

As much as i dislike the 2 party system, the USA probably does best to cycle between conservative and liberal in order to stay roughly down the middle of the road.

Trump was scary, though. And i think it's gonna take us a while to get through his narcissistic shitstorm that created such a mass of misinformation. We're no longer in the global information age. We're in the attention commodity age, and while Trump didn't create it, he certainly took advantage of it, and made it worse.

The man who would be king.