17 new temples?

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AtlanticMike1
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by AtlanticMike1 » Mon May 09, 2022 10:27 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:25 am
A spokesman for the church said on the news that they are accelerating the rate of temple building to keep up with the church's rapid growth.

Image
How many announced temples have not even broken ground yet?

I feel bad for the next guy who has to actually deal with the fallout of Nelson's fantasy world. I expect them to continue to ramp up the Last Days talk to put a sense of urgency on these kinds of things. And not one red cent for building these will come out of the Ensign Peak fund; more pressure on local members to feed the beast.
Why do you care if the church builds temples?

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Hagoth
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by Hagoth » Tue May 10, 2022 11:06 am

AtlanticMike1 wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 10:27 am
Why do you care if the church builds temples?
I care about this:
Image
I care that a man who pretends to be a prophet of God loads up credulous people with an unnecessary burden. I care that this seems to be a showing of vain glory for one man to gain praise and to outcompete his predecessors. I care that a corporation that tells its members to give money to the corporation before they buy food and medicine for their children, even though it would be valued high in the Fortune 500, needs to make such an obvious show of wealth and opulence, especially while that it takes the widow's mite while sitting on a mountain of wealth that they call "charity" even though that is a blatant and intentional misrepresentation. I care that these men pretty much follow the playbook of the New Testament Pharisees.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

AtlanticMike1
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by AtlanticMike1 » Wed May 11, 2022 4:12 am

Hagoth wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 11:06 am
AtlanticMike1 wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 10:27 am
Why do you care if the church builds temples?
I care about this:
Image
I care that a man who pretends to be a prophet of God loads up credulous people with an unnecessary burden. I care that this seems to be a showing of vain glory for one man to gain praise and to outcompete his predecessors. I care that a corporation that tells its members to give money to the corporation before they buy food and medicine for their children, even though it would be valued high in the Fortune 500, needs to make such an obvious show of wealth and opulence, especially while that it takes the widow's mite while sitting on a mountain of wealth that they call "charity" even though that is a blatant and intentional misrepresentation. I care that these men pretty much follow the playbook of the New Testament Pharisees.
Most of the Mormons I know are fairly well off even after giving 10% to the church. Why? Because mormonism teaches a way of life that the majority of people don't live today. Mormons are frugal, Mormons believe in staying debt free. Most pay as they go. They work within their means. Their taught all this from birth. Seems to me when you look at the mormon prophet your first reaction is to speak negative about patriarchal leadership. I've never understood why exmormons feel this way. If a man or a woman want to raise their children in a structured environment where most life decisions can be found within the religion, why do you care? Is Utah a terrible state to live in ? Are most of the people in Utah unhappy? Are you trying to say Utah would be better off if mormonism was wiped off the face of the earth?

Explain this please! I just looked at 2018 2019 2020 2021and 2022 statistics and Utah is among the top ten happiest states for all of those years and for three of those years Utah was in the top three. What have you and all the other exmormons figure out that the brethren and the state of Utah hasn't figured out when it comes to living a happy peaceful life?

stuck
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by stuck » Wed May 11, 2022 8:55 am


Most of the Mormons I know are fairly well off even after giving 10% to the church. Why? Because mormonism teaches a way of life that the majority of people don't live today. Mormons are frugal, Mormons believe in staying debt free. Most pay as they go. They work within their means. Their taught all this from birth. Seems to me when you look at the mormon prophet your first reaction is to speak negative about patriarchal leadership. I've never understood why exmormons feel this way. If a man or a woman want to raise their children in a structured environment where most life decisions can be found within the religion, why do you care? Is Utah a terrible state to live in ? Are most of the people in Utah unhappy? Are you trying to say Utah would be better off if mormonism was wiped off the face of the earth?

Explain this please! I just looked at 2018 2019 2020 2021and 2022 statistics and Utah is among the top ten happiest states for all of those years and for three of those years Utah was in the top three. What have you and all the other exmormons figure out that the brethren and the state of Utah hasn't figured out when it comes to living a happy peaceful life?
Perhaps there is something to the saying "ignorance is bliss". The Mormon church does a pretty good job of keeping most of its members isolated from anti-mormon information. I just had a discussion with someone in my ward as to why I don't believe and told them it first started with the Blacks and the priesthood essay that came out about 9 years ago. He knew of it but hadn't read it.

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Red Ryder
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by Red Ryder » Wed May 11, 2022 9:30 am

Hey Mike, perhaps you could send a link you your happiest statistics?

I’ve read articles that report high use of anti depressants, suicides, and pharmaceutical prescription drug abuse among Mormons.

Mormon prosperity can also be questioned as high debts and bankruptcy are common among Utah Mormons.
“I switched baristas” —Lady Gaga

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alas
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by alas » Wed May 11, 2022 9:45 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 9:30 am
Hey Mike, perhaps you could send a link you your happiest statistics?

I’ve read articles that report high use of anti depressants, suicides, and pharmaceutical prescription drug abuse among Mormons.

Mormon prosperity can also be questioned as high debts and bankruptcy are common among Utah Mormons.
Utah also has a higher than average domestic violence, death due to domestic violence, child abuse, death due to child abuse, sexual child abuse, rape, suicide, and about a dozen other measures of unhappy, mean, hateful, people. Yeah, I think Mormons are taught to think they are happier than anybody else, and then spend their lives wondering why they are the only miserable people in the church, and so they blame themselves for being miserable, while filling out the survey about how happy they are. Mormons are taught to look happy to the outside world and to say they are happy, and I know a lot who have never asked themselves if they are really happy or not, but the outwards signs that I can see say they are not happy.

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wtfluff
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by wtfluff » Wed May 11, 2022 3:27 pm

Why are Utah Mormons so "Happy" ?

This is the answer:
Radio Free Mormon: 079: Why Are Mormons So Fake?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

AtlanticMike1
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by AtlanticMike1 » Thu May 12, 2022 4:39 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 9:30 am
Hey Mike, perhaps you could send a link you your happiest statistics?

I’ve read articles that report high use of anti depressants, suicides, and pharmaceutical prescription drug abuse among Mormons.

Mormon prosperity can also be questioned as high debts and bankruptcy are common among Utah Mormons.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state ... est-states

https://thedo.osteopathic.org/2021/09/w ... s-in-2021/

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/26/survey- ... dents.html

https://www.americanspa.com/wellness/th ... tates-2019

Here's a few articles from 2022, 2021, 2020 and 2019. Utah is either #1 or #2 in the rankings. I'm an East Coast guy, what am I not understanding? We've had a lot of Utah Mormons move here where I live, usually in the military and I've never heard one person say they hated living there. Utah net migration for 2021 was 35,000 compared to population drops in California, New York and Illinois. So what are the Mormons doing that's so terrible?

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Just This Guy
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by Just This Guy » Thu May 12, 2022 5:58 am

AtlanticMike1 wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 4:39 am
I'm an East Coast guy, what am I not understanding? We've had a lot of Utah Mormons move here where I live, usually in the military and I've never heard one person say they hated living there. Utah net migration for 2021 was 35,000 compared to population drops in California, New York and Illinois. So what are the Mormons doing that's so terrible?

That's Interesting Mike. I also live in the Mid Atlantic area. I'm in between Washington DC and Pittsburgh, to give you an idea of where I am.

I know a number of people who move here from Utah as well, and they tend to fall into 2 camps. Either they are non-members who are glad to be out of the area, or the are members who will say the miss Utah to start, but after a year or two will change their minds and say they are much happier outside of Utah. Most common reason is that they don't have the pressure to live up to the unrealistic standards the Mormon Public has. They can relax and be themselves.

In the Long run, even TBMs are happier living in the mission field than in the Morridor.

However, almost everyone I know says they do miss the outdoor recreation Utah has. There is plenty to see and do here, but Utah defiantly has some unique features for the outdoors inclined.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

AtlanticMike1
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by AtlanticMike1 » Thu May 12, 2022 6:25 am

Just This Guy wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 5:58 am
AtlanticMike1 wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 4:39 am
I'm an East Coast guy, what am I not understanding? We've had a lot of Utah Mormons move here where I live, usually in the military and I've never heard one person say they hated living there. Utah net migration for 2021 was 35,000 compared to population drops in California, New York and Illinois. So what are the Mormons doing that's so terrible?

That's Interesting Mike. I also live in the Mid Atlantic area. I'm in between Washington DC and Pittsburgh, to give you an idea of where I am.

I know a number of people who move here from Utah as well, and they tend to fall into 2 camps. Either they are non-members who are glad to be out of the area, or the are members who will say the miss Utah to start, but after a year or two will change their minds and say they are much happier outside of Utah. Most common reason is that they don't have the pressure to live up to the unrealistic standards the Mormon Public has. They can relax and be themselves.

In the Long run, even TBMs are happier living in the mission field than in the Morridor.

However, almost everyone I know says they do miss the outdoor recreation Utah has. There is plenty to see and do here, but Utah defiantly has some unique features for the outdoors inclined.
I live near the largest naval station in the world so we get a lot of people moving in and out of our wards. In my experience people from Utah and I'm going to throw in Idaho, are really happy when coming from Utah and landing here. We have a lot of families that choose to stay here because they can enjoy the ocean, inland waterways, 3 hour drive and they're in the mountains, and all the historical stuff. That doesn't mean they didn't enjoy living in Utah. My point being that Utah must be a pretty great place to live because I can't remember one time a member has told me they hate Utah. I'll admit, the couple of times I visited Utah I didn't like it. Not enough color for me. The landscape was either red or tan😅. We drove from Vegas to Saint George and everything looked the same. But I did enjoy the speed limits. On that trip I was able to hit 110mph in a rented crown vic. You do that crap here in Virginia where the speed limit is 55 and they'll put you under the jail.

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nibbler
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by nibbler » Thu May 12, 2022 6:27 am

It's like a kid piling up their plate at dinnertime, "Now now Russell. Finish the temples you've announced before you announce any more."

Or, "You have to finish your vegetables (taking care of needs of the living) before you can get desert (taking care of needs of the dead)."
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

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alas
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by alas » Thu May 12, 2022 9:34 am

AtlanticMike1 wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 6:25 am
Just This Guy wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 5:58 am
AtlanticMike1 wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 4:39 am
I'm an East Coast guy, what am I not understanding? We've had a lot of Utah Mormons move here where I live, usually in the military and I've never heard one person say they hated living there. Utah net migration for 2021 was 35,000 compared to population drops in California, New York and Illinois. So what are the Mormons doing that's so terrible?

That's Interesting Mike. I also live in the Mid Atlantic area. I'm in between Washington DC and Pittsburgh, to give you an idea of where I am.

I know a number of people who move here from Utah as well, and they tend to fall into 2 camps. Either they are non-members who are glad to be out of the area, or the are members who will say the miss Utah to start, but after a year or two will change their minds and say they are much happier outside of Utah. Most common reason is that they don't have the pressure to live up to the unrealistic standards the Mormon Public has. They can relax and be themselves.

In the Long run, even TBMs are happier living in the mission field than in the Morridor.

However, almost everyone I know says they do miss the outdoor recreation Utah has. There is plenty to see and do here, but Utah defiantly has some unique features for the outdoors inclined.
I live near the largest naval station in the world so we get a lot of people moving in and out of our wards. In my experience people from Utah and I'm going to throw in Idaho, are really happy when coming from Utah and landing here. We have a lot of families that choose to stay here because they can enjoy the ocean, inland waterways, 3 hour drive and they're in the mountains, and all the historical stuff. That doesn't mean they didn't enjoy living in Utah. My point being that Utah must be a pretty great place to live because I can't remember one time a member has told me they hate Utah. I'll admit, the couple of times I visited Utah I didn't like it. Not enough color for me. The landscape was either red or tan😅. We drove from Vegas to Saint George and everything looked the same. But I did enjoy the speed limits. On that trip I was able to hit 110mph in a rented crown vic. You do that crap here in Virginia where the speed limit is 55 and they'll put you under the jail.
We were air force 20 years and we both grew up in Utah. The one base we both hated being stationed at was Hill in Utah. Out of Utah people bad mouth “Utah Mormons” as being all about how things look, and not about how things really are. They do not all really live up to church standards, but put on a show of doing so. Outside of Utah if you are going to go somewhere without kids, be hospitalized, or any other thing that you need some help with, you call up ward members. In Utah, you get, “why can’t your family do that?” And I really hated to explain that my dad was a child molester and my mother in law was a b word who refused to help at all. And if I DID get frustrated enough to explain, they just stared at me, but didn’t change their minds about helping.

But, when it came down to where to retire and settle, we picked Utah because we still like our siblings and we garden (and you just can’t garden in Texas, Florida, Mississippi) and we camp, hike, kayak, ATV. We love Utah Mountains, and that Southern Utah desert you found all one color and boring, well, we love it. So, we snowbird between mountains around a little lake on the Utah/Idaho border at 6,000 feet, and the St George area of Southern Utah, and we STILL grumble about Utah Mormons being jerky hypocrites. But when you expect them to be jerks and hypocrites, then you are not disappointed.

The majority of the people moving to Utah from places like California are not Mormon, but moving here because of the conservative politics here and the beautiful desert and nice mild winter in Southern Utah. Or if they pick northern Utah it is for the mountains and skiing as well as the politics.

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nibbler
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by nibbler » Thu May 12, 2022 3:02 pm

Image
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

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2bizE
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by 2bizE » Thu May 12, 2022 7:19 pm

Who is going to work in all of these temples? Right now it is primarily boomers. There will be fewer GenX wanting to take that over in the future. Wait until the millennials are retiring. There will be lots of temples with nobody making them. Maybe by then the temple will be entirely automated with kiosks and robots and other automation so no workers will be needed.
~2bizE

Cnsl1
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by Cnsl1 » Fri May 13, 2022 1:16 am

I remember when there was the 3 fold mission of the church: proclaim the gospel, strengthen the saints, and redeem the dead.

And the EQ and HP group each had the three committees that corresponded to the 3 missions.

And the proclaiming the gospel committee gave out books of Mormon, the strengthening the saints committee planned the ward activities, and the redeeming the dead committee arranged the temple trips and tried to get people to get names ready for the temple. Nobody wanted to be in the redeeming the dead committee.

Then jolly ol Tommy Monson told us that the church now has FOUR missions. The fourth was to help the poor and needy. I remember thinking that we used to be told that helping living people fell into the strengthening the saints mission, but whatever, the new mission sounds good and Christlike. Then we had the welfare committee as a big part of the ward leadership, and consisted of multiple people from all the auxiliaries, and they met at least once a month and talked about who needed help and how to help them.

Then somewhere along the line the welfare committee seemed to drift away, and there was just the ward council, who had to address all the missions, then it seemed like nobody talked about the four-fold mission of the church anymore and things became about preaching the gospel and getting everyone to the temple. And they seemed to stop talking about redeeming the dead ancestors and the focus of the temple seemed to go back to getting you there for YOU, even if you've been there already. Everyone needs to go to the temple again and again. Why? Just cuz it's so special and you need to be there, ok!?

So... what about strengthening the society of saints by having the activities and get togethers and block parties, and so on? Well, that's ok if you can invite your non member friends.

What about caring for the poor and needy? Let's get them to clean the chapel on Saturday in exchange for the storehouse food order. If they have a temple recommend, they can clean the temple next Saturday.. but they probably don't, of course. If they were living the gospel like they're supposed to, they wouldn't be poor and needy, but prosperous tithe payers.

I think Russell has but one mission of the church: create a legacy.

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Hagoth
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Re: 17 new temples?

Post by Hagoth » Mon May 16, 2022 8:40 am

AtlanticMike1 wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 4:12 am


Explain this please! I just looked at 2018 2019 2020 2021and 2022 statistics and Utah is among the top ten happiest states for all of those years and for three of those years Utah was in the top three. What have you and all the other exmormons figure out that the brethren and the state of Utah hasn't figured out when it comes to living a happy peaceful life?
Well, for one thing, you simply changed the topic of the thread, but since you did...

Jehovah's Witnesses and Scientologists also report themselves to be extremely happy, because they are taught that everyone else is even more miserable.

Here's something to think about. Michael Ferguson was one of the first neuroscientists to identify a specific brain activity pattern that has a direct correlation to self-reported spiritual states of mind, what Mormons call "feeling the spirit." Now numerous studies have verified that a brain in a spiritual or mystical state exhibits a recognizable brain scan pattern, regardless of religious or spiritual tradition. Ferguson had a particular problem, working specifically with Mormons. Some of the participants showed no change in brain state when they claimed to be "feeling the spirit." They were falsely reporting spiritual experiences because they knew they were supposed to be more spiritual than others.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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