NOM

I may have missed this elsewhere, but it looks like jfro18 will be on Mormon Stories this afternoon. Anyone tuning in?

græy wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:48 am

I may have missed this elsewhere, but it looks like jfro18 will be on Mormon Stories this afternoon. Anyone tuning in?

I don’t think he sent out invitations. Nonetheless, he better give a shout out to our corner of the internet!

And while I’m thinking about it…

Bishop Graey should do an incognito Mormon Stories interview.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:55 am

I don’t think he sent out invitations. Nonetheless, he better give a shout out to our corner of the internet!

And while I’m thinking about it…

Bishop Graey should do an incognito Mormon Stories interview.

Haha! I've thought about it, but I'm not sure I can do that to my wife right now.

Definitely agreed on the shout out, though. Go, jfro18!

Great. I can't resist when Mormon Stories talks with someone I "know."

Do you think John can keep it under 8 hours?


Actually, screw that, I hope he chats with Jfro for 18 hours!

Yep - after a lot of back and forth I finally dove in on MS to go through truth claims. I am not ready or in a position to get into my "story" per se, but we had talked for a very long time about doing a truth claims series based on the overview project.

I hope it wasn't terrible - it was a trial run so I wasn't sure what to expect, but hopefully it was helpful to anyone who wants to start learning these topics or treasure digging. And I didn't post it ahead of time because I just felt weird doing it for all sorts of reasons.

I cannot give NOM a shout-out because this place is too good to just expose to a wider audience without running it by the NOM founders, but I did give Hagoth a shoutout for his amazing annotated essays that he graciously let me use.

A Bishop græy interview would be absolutely amazing... do it like old school 20/20 style with the blurred face and voice so they can't find you!

I listened for about 15 minutes.

Shout away.

The original NOM founder died years ago. We’re just an offshoot of an offshoot of a site that crashed.

We’re public domain now. Like Kleenex, xerox, and the word formerly known as Mormon.

I want to see Hagoth on Mormonism Live or at least hear him on Radio Free Mormon.

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Is this the Mormon Stories episode in question?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p7gAxwsM_k

Dang. I'm just seeing this. I look forward to watching the rerun!

ETA: Jfro, I have updated and corrected some of those essays quite a bit since their first installment- especially DNA and BoA.

I listened to half of the podcast on my morning run. Looking forward to the rest! Jfro does an excellent job, and it sounds like they're planning to have him back for an ongoing series. Well done!

If the goal of the church were to find truth, this information would be welcomed by all. Not saying that everyone would agree, but this would advance the effort to understand what happened. Very well done.

Here is a podcast by a first-time podcaster, Paul Osborne, that I hope people can appreciate. It is based on first-rate research into the Book of Abraham. It is 13 minutes long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm2Y9ep9qSU

blazerb wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:22 pm

If the goal of the church were to find truth, this information would be welcomed by all. Not saying that everyone would agree, but this would advance the effort to understand what happened. Very well done.

My goal in doing this series is to make it as "solid" as possible and not dip into overly speculative issues and to address why apologetics do not work. There will be nothing in there that I think anyone should fear and to your point, if the church truly believes the endgoal was discovering truth this should be a welcome series for people who want to know more. I guess we'll see as it goes what the response is - so far just one complaint email.

moksha wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:09 am

Here is a podcast by a first-time podcaster, Paul Osborne, that I hope people can appreciate. It is based on first-rate research into the Book of Abraham. It is 13 minutes long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm2Y9ep9qSU

Paul knows his stuff - I keep hoping that they can do a Mormonism Live with him.

I just finished listening to Jfro on Mormon stories. It was an outstanding presentation! I appreciated his recognition of Hagoth as well. There are at many others, if I tried to name you I'd surely leave someone out, who post here with outstanding writing and other projects. We on NOM have enjoyed the excellent level of posting on this thread for years. Thanks, everyone.

As a small aside, what is it going to take to get Hagoth to create TikTok videos about Mormonism?!

jfro18 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:18 pm

As a small aside, what is it going to take to get Hagoth to create TikTok videos about Mormonism?!

For starters he'd have to have a TikTok account!

moksha wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:09 am

Here is a podcast by a first-time podcaster, Paul Osborne, that I hope people can appreciate. It is based on first-rate research into the Book of Abraham. It is 13 minutes long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm2Y9ep9qSU

I really enjoyed that. They not only try to steal the identity of Native Americans, but also ancient Egyptians.

Paul is so deliberate in his speaking that I listened at 2X speed and it sounded normal, so if you can't spare 13 minutes, try 7 1/2.

jfro18 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:31 am

Paul knows his stuff - I keep hoping that they can do a Mormonism Live with him.

Paul Osborne and our own Hagoth. Does anyone know how to make this happen?

It's like if we spot a vein of gold, how do we make those gentlemen in the Sacramento Assay Office take notice? For Orthodox LDS it's like, "Quick, go call the alchemists so we can make our own", but for Bill and RFM it might take cloud-piercing technology.

Wow "Mike," you really hit a home run with your observation at the end of the interview. Joseph changed his focus from gold digging to religion because gold digging clients expect you to actually produce something, but with religion you don't actually have to deliver because you can postpone those expectations until after death. Such a good way to tie up the loose ends.

Finally had a chance to listen to your Mormon Stories interview, jfro, and it was simply an excellent discussion and presentation. I don't know if you are aware, but in the Youtube comments the peerless Dan Vogel called your presentation "a high quality discussion." That should give you some sense of pride, from a dude who really knows his stuff and who has written one of the best biographies of Joseph. Really good.

My favourite part of the discussion is actually in your introduction about putting all the pieces together. I couldn't agree with you more. It's not all the little problems, it's when you start seeing the larger pattern about Joseph's behaviour that you start to see what's going on. I think for most members, it's the sheer work involved in putting the puzzle together that keeps them from seeing the pattern.

But excellent work, and again, no higher praise can I bestow upon you than you would have made an excellent historian!

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:25 pm

Wow "Mike," you really hit a home run with your observation at the end of the interview. Joseph changed his focus from gold digging to religion because gold digging clients expect you to actually produce something, but with religion you don't actually have to deliver because you can postpone those expectations until after death. Such a good way to tie up the loose ends.

Thanks! I know I've heard others make a similar comment before, but it really was one of those "a-ha" moments to realize that Joseph Smith transitioned from treasure digging to religion because he could use the exact same tactics but never have the pressure of actually producing anything.

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 16, 2022 6:17 am

My favourite part of the discussion is actually in your introduction about putting all the pieces together. I couldn't agree with you more. It's not all the little problems, it's when you start seeing the larger pattern about Joseph's behaviour that you start to see what's going on. I think for most members, it's the sheer work involved in putting the puzzle together that keeps them from seeing the pattern.

But excellent work, and again, no higher praise can I bestow upon you than you would have made an excellent historian!

You are WAY too kind, but thank you so much. I won't lie to say that I am quite delighted that Dan Vogel both watched it and thought it was well done given that he could run circles around me with this stuff.

At the end of the series (whenever that comes) I really hope that someone who has questions can feel comfortable watching these episodes because they will not call it a cult or call Joseph a pedophile, etc. Maybe they ultimately still disagree with my conclusions, but I hope that at least they're done in a way that's honest to the evidence and won't make someone who watches it as a believer feel like they're constantly being mocked or attacked. If I can do that I'll be happy because I think the evidence speaks for itself so I don't need to be obnoxious or aggressive to do anything more.