He Has Teleported

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
User avatar
moksha
Posts: 5045
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

He Has Teleported

Post by moksha » Sun Apr 17, 2022 2:21 pm

Happy Easter, everyone!
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 7062
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by Hagoth » Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:41 pm

Saw his shadow. Six more weeks of winter.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
SaidNobody
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:03 am

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:40 am

The lack of faith and weak belief has become the spirit of this group. It's as if you would rather not believe anything than being hoodwinked. Personally, I don't believe things because they are true; I believe because it is useful. We are as if worms crawling in the mud, trying to understand the universe. There is no way that we can know the truth. Not yet!

I say, "Hold on to your faith and work it as you grow." I can promise, that the truth about the universe is more fantastic than anything you could imagine or make up. What harm can there be in believing; that people will laugh at you, that you will feel dumb? The idea of Christ coming to America is probably not true, but the consideration of such a possibility has revealed even greater possibilities. In the end, there are no hard facts or solid truths, just possibilities and probabilities that we wrap our reality around.

User avatar
Spicy McHaggis
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by Spicy McHaggis » Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:36 am

I'm interested in the technology Jesus and HF use to instantly teleport across the universe from Kolob to Earth. If they would let byu have that technology, imagine the immense wealth the church could generate.

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 5045
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by moksha » Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:48 am

Spicy McHaggis wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:36 am
I'm interested in the technology Jesus and HF use to instantly teleport across the universe from Kolob to Earth.
It was known as TET (Twinkling of an Eye Technology).




BTW, here is something profoundly religious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLTu1xv2-Us
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 7062
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by Hagoth » Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:50 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:40 am
I can promise, that the truth about the universe is more fantastic than anything you could imagine or make up.
I totally agree. That is why it is important to continue to seek direct personal experience with the cosmos, rather than settle for obviously made up fairytales. If you are sitting on a bench in a building being told by a Man of Authority what you believe and what you are allowed to experience, you have given up before you even got started.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
SaidNobody
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:03 am

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:27 pm

Hagoth,

The universe is more than just knowing stuff. It's about experiencing, working, traveling, and growing. All of the experiences we go through open new doors in the fabric of the cosmos. You cannot just know what a parent is; you must live it. You cannot just know what divinity is, you must have it. Fairytales are the ideas and beliefs that teach us romance, love, honor, chaos, etc. None of it's real unless you believe it.

User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 4142
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:01 pm

I get your point SaidNobody.

But what if we already lived it for 30+ years and it just didn’t do anything for us?

What if we worked at it and it just didn’t grow as promised? My fault right?

That experience should count for something, right?
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
SaidNobody
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:03 am

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:31 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:01 pm
I get your point SaidNobody.

But what if we already lived it for 30+ years and it just didn’t do anything for us?

What if we worked at it and it just didn’t grow as promised? My fault right?

That experience should count for something, right?
If it doesn't work for you? Well, I can't argue with that. But do you see anything beautiful about Mormonism? I love Mormons. I think most of them are beautiful, but some can be a little hooky. Within their own context, they seem very functional.

But sometimes America isn't working for me, but I don't go around trying convince people it's a lie. I see the function in others and I want to make it work.

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 7062
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by Hagoth » Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:41 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:27 pm
Hagoth,

The universe is more than just knowing stuff. It's about experiencing, working, traveling, and growing. All of the experiences we go through open new doors in the fabric of the cosmos. You cannot just know what a parent is; you must live it. You cannot just know what divinity is, you must have it. Fairytales are the ideas and beliefs that teach us romance, love, honor, chaos, etc. None of it's real unless you believe it.
I couldn't agree more!

All the more reason to not let yourself get backed into a particular ideological corner. True religious freedom, in my opinion, is the realization that we are free to recognize mythology for what it is and to reflect on it to guide us through some of the tricky parts.

I love the metaphor of opening doors. Doors are for moving from one place to another, not for keeping you locked in the same room. I spent my life looking for spirituality in Mormonism. It turned out, for me, it felt like locked room that wasn't bringing me the happiness that they kept telling me I was feeling. Because, deep down inside, although I didn't have the ability, or maybe the guts, to acknowledge it, I think I knew it was a made up story. I think most Mormons do. That's why they're so afraid of peeking out from under the church's skirts. Finally letting go is what kicked open the door for me. If people can find it in there, and I'm sure many do, more power to them. But a lot of people are just stuck and they won't even try to open the door because they have been told over and over again that everybody Out There is even more miserable.

I think the true Abrahamic sacrifice (one of those useful myths we're talking about) is to have the courage to put your own beliefs on the altar and sacrifice them, hack them into pieces. And then take that long, scary walk out into the unknown. Satan's not going to get you. If God truly wants you to have those old beliefs He/She/It/They will lead you back to them. Or, if you have the faith, God might just keep opening new doors.

Personally, there are things about Mormonism that I love. Sometimes more than others. The authority structure -the good ol' boys club of boring old, self-aggrandizing Pharisees sitting in the high seats - is not one of them. The ridiculous apologetics is not one of them. The arrogant bigotry is not one of them. The mythology and doctored history taught as literal truth is not one of them. The dishonesty, obfuscation, gaslighting, money grubbing - nope. But all of that is coming down from the top. I love so many of the people. I love my Mormon family and neighbors. I am very close to many people in my ward. And I really do love some of the myths. A 14-year old boy talking to God in a grove of trees? It's not true, but it has power. Same for the resurrection of Jesus. They are hopeful, uplifting stories that we can draw on for their symbolism without getting all defensive and panicky if other people don't believe them, as long as we can accept them for what they are.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 7062
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by Hagoth » Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:36 pm

Oh yeah, and I LOVE my friends here on NOM. They kept some of the best things they could learn from Mormonism and brought them along after they graduated.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 4142
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:57 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:41 pm
I couldn't agree more!

All the more reason to not let yourself get backed into a particular ideological corner. True religious freedom, in my opinion, is the realization that we are free to recognize mythology for what it is and to reflect on it to guide us through some of the tricky parts.

I love the metaphor of opening doors. Doors are for moving from one place to another, not for keeping you locked in the same room. I spent my life looking for spirituality in Mormonism. It turned out, for me, it felt like locked room that wasn't bringing me the happiness that they kept telling me I was feeling. Because, deep down inside, although I didn't have the ability, or maybe the guts, to acknowledge it, I think I knew it was a made up story. I think most Mormons do. That's why they're so afraid of peeking out from under the church's skirts. Finally letting go is what kicked open the door for me. If people can find it in there, and I'm sure many do, more power to them. But a lot of people are just stuck and they won't even try to open the door because they have been told over and over again that everybody Out There is even more miserable.

I think the true Abrahamic sacrifice (one of those useful myths we're talking about) is to have the courage to put your own beliefs on the altar and sacrifice them, hack them into pieces. And then take that long, scary walk out into the unknown. Satan's not going to get you. If God truly wants you to have those old beliefs He/She/It/They will lead you back to them. Or, if you have the faith, God might just keep opening new doors.

Personally, there are things about Mormonism that I love. Sometimes more than others. The authority structure -the good ol' boys club of boring old, self-aggrandizing Pharisees sitting in the high seats - is not one of them. The ridiculous apologetics is not one of them. The arrogant bigotry is not one of them. The mythology and doctored history taught as literal truth is not one of them. The dishonesty, obfuscation, gaslighting, money grubbing - nope. But all of that is coming down from the top. I love so many of the people. I love my Mormon family and neighbors. I am very close to many people in my ward. And I really do love some of the myths. A 14-year old boy talking to God in a grove of trees? It's not true, but it has power. Same for the resurrection of Jesus. They are hopeful, uplifting stories that we can draw on for their symbolism without getting all defensive and panicky if other people don't believe them, as long as we can accept them for what they are.
Beautifully written Hagoth. Just brilliant.

I may have to borrow this someday. 😀
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
jfro18
Posts: 2064
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by jfro18 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:11 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:41 pm
I love the metaphor of opening doors. Doors are for moving from one place to another, not for keeping you locked in the same room. I spent my life looking for spirituality in Mormonism. It turned out, for me, it felt like locked room that wasn't bringing me the happiness that they kept telling me I was feeling. Because, deep down inside, although I didn't have the ability, or maybe the guts, to acknowledge it, I think I knew it was a made up story. I think most Mormons do. That's why they're so afraid of peeking out from under the church's skirts. Finally letting go is what kicked open the door for me. If people can find it in there, and I'm sure many do, more power to them. But a lot of people are just stuck and they won't even try to open the door because they have been told over and over again that everybody Out There is even more miserable.
This is a great metaphor and along with RR I might be stealing it someday. :lol:

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 7062
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by Hagoth » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:06 am

jfro18 wrote:
Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:11 am
Hagoth wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:41 pm
I love the metaphor of opening doors. Doors are for moving from one place to another, not for keeping you locked in the same room. I spent my life looking for spirituality in Mormonism. It turned out, for me, it felt like locked room that wasn't bringing me the happiness that they kept telling me I was feeling. Because, deep down inside, although I didn't have the ability, or maybe the guts, to acknowledge it, I think I knew it was a made up story. I think most Mormons do. That's why they're so afraid of peeking out from under the church's skirts. Finally letting go is what kicked open the door for me. If people can find it in there, and I'm sure many do, more power to them. But a lot of people are just stuck and they won't even try to open the door because they have been told over and over again that everybody Out There is even more miserable.
This is a great metaphor and along with RR I might be stealing it someday. :lol:
And of course, we must add to this the Alan Watts metaphor that I have mentioned here several times. Religions are like revolving doors. They have forgotten that their job is to get you from one room to the next and they are obsessed with keeping you going around and around in them forever.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

stuck
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:48 pm

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by stuck » Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:33 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:41 pm
SaidNobody wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:27 pm
Hagoth,

The universe is more than just knowing stuff. It's about experiencing, working, traveling, and growing. All of the experiences we go through open new doors in the fabric of the cosmos. You cannot just know what a parent is; you must live it. You cannot just know what divinity is, you must have it. Fairytales are the ideas and beliefs that teach us romance, love, honor, chaos, etc. None of it's real unless you believe it.
I couldn't agree more!

All the more reason to not let yourself get backed into a particular ideological corner. True religious freedom, in my opinion, is the realization that we are free to recognize mythology for what it is and to reflect on it to guide us through some of the tricky parts.

I love the metaphor of opening doors. Doors are for moving from one place to another, not for keeping you locked in the same room. I spent my life looking for spirituality in Mormonism. It turned out, for me, it felt like locked room that wasn't bringing me the happiness that they kept telling me I was feeling. Because, deep down inside, although I didn't have the ability, or maybe the guts, to acknowledge it, I think I knew it was a made up story. I think most Mormons do. That's why they're so afraid of peeking out from under the church's skirts. Finally letting go is what kicked open the door for me. If people can find it in there, and I'm sure many do, more power to them. But a lot of people are just stuck and they won't even try to open the door because they have been told over and over again that everybody Out There is even more miserable.

I think the true Abrahamic sacrifice (one of those useful myths we're talking about) is to have the courage to put your own beliefs on the altar and sacrifice them, hack them into pieces. And then take that long, scary walk out into the unknown. Satan's not going to get you. If God truly wants you to have those old beliefs He/She/It/They will lead you back to them. Or, if you have the faith, God might just keep opening new doors.

Personally, there are things about Mormonism that I love. Sometimes more than others. The authority structure -the good ol' boys club of boring old, self-aggrandizing Pharisees sitting in the high seats - is not one of them. The ridiculous apologetics is not one of them. The arrogant bigotry is not one of them. The mythology and doctored history taught as literal truth is not one of them. The dishonesty, obfuscation, gaslighting, money grubbing - nope. But all of that is coming down from the top. I love so many of the people. I love my Mormon family and neighbors. I am very close to many people in my ward. And I really do love some of the myths. A 14-year old boy talking to God in a grove of trees? It's not true, but it has power. Same for the resurrection of Jesus. They are hopeful, uplifting stories that we can draw on for their symbolism without getting all defensive and panicky if other people don't believe them, as long as we can accept them for what they are.
Great response Hagoth!

User avatar
SaidNobody
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:03 am

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:57 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:36 pm
A 14-year old boy talking to God in a grove of trees? It's not true, but it has power. Same for the resurrection of Jesus. They are hopeful, uplifting stories that we can draw on for their symbolism without getting all defensive and panicky if other people don't believe them, as long as we can accept them for what they are.
For me, it was true, or at least circumstantially true. Just before George Washington won the Revolutionary War, he went into the woods to pray. Because he was a badass general, he also had guards that wouldn't let him out of their sight. They reported that George told them to stay back a little as he prayed. They reported seeing a strange bright light ahead where George was praying. George comes back, and they cross the river in the middle of the night and kill some redcoats on Christmas morning.

This is almost exactly what happened to Joseph Smith. While people can argue about what really happened, SOMETHING happened. Aliens, angels, Gods, these might all be relative terms. Who knows what really moves in the fog? But the Joseph Smith story is the mix of true origins of humans on this planet. From Moroni, an ancient American Guardian, to elders journalling about temple work in the Yucatan Temples, the possibilities are very interesting and spiritual.

But the good ole boy club is annoying. I'm not actually a member of the church, and I'm sure I couldn't tolerate it very well. But I am very grateful for my Mormon background. Many of the things I come to believe, which most Mormons would recommend me for re-baptism, try in with the Joseph Smith story. For example, The people of Machu Picchu, high in the Andies, were known as the Cloud People and believed to be fair-skinned, later wiped out by the Incas. The evidence of something, otherworldly, is strong in the area, complimenting the Book of Ester.

Anyway, I love the stories.

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 5045
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by moksha » Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:21 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:57 am
Anyway, I love the stories.
Isn't it great when they were rescued by the Eagles, and so sad and yet hopeful at the parting of the Grey Havens? As they say, "The road goes ever on and on..."
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
SaidNobody
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:03 am

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:03 pm

moksha wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:21 pm
SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:57 am
Anyway, I love the stories.
Isn't it great when they were rescued by the Eagles, and so sad and yet hopeful at the parting of the Grey Havens? As they say, "The road goes ever on and on..."
Í love that story too.

Though a well known work of fiction, LOTR may rivel the bible in modern influence.

User avatar
Angel
Posts: 762
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 8:26 am

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by Angel » Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:18 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:57 am
Hagoth wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:36 pm
A 14-year old boy talking to God in a grove of trees? It's not true, but it has power. Same for the resurrection of Jesus. They are hopeful, uplifting stories that we can draw on for their symbolism without getting all defensive and panicky if other people don't believe them, as long as we can accept them for what they are.
For me, it was true, or at least circumstantially true. Just before George Washington won the Revolutionary War, he went into the woods to pray. Because he was a badass general, he also had guards that wouldn't let him out of their sight. They reported that George told them to stay back a little as he prayed. They reported seeing a strange bright light ahead where George was praying. George comes back, and they cross the river in the middle of the night and kill some redcoats on Christmas morning.

This is almost exactly what happened to Joseph Smith. While people can argue about what really happened, SOMETHING happened. Aliens, angels, Gods, these might all be relative terms. Who knows what really moves in the fog? But the Joseph Smith story is the mix of true origins of humans on this planet. From Moroni, an ancient American Guardian, to elders journalling about temple work in the Yucatan Temples, the possibilities are very interesting and spiritual.

But the good ole boy club is annoying. I'm not actually a member of the church, and I'm sure I couldn't tolerate it very well. But I am very grateful for my Mormon background. Many of the things I come to believe, which most Mormons would recommend me for re-baptism, try in with the Joseph Smith story. For example, The people of Machu Picchu, high in the Andies, were known as the Cloud People and believed to be fair-skinned, later wiped out by the Incas. The evidence of something, otherworldly, is strong in the area, complimenting the Book of Ester.

Anyway, I love the stories.
About that battle of Trent - my great-g-g-g- grandfather was "captured" in it, you can read about him - "Nicholas Bahner", here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hessian_(soldier) → 1,000 hessians "captured", only 20 killed - haha - Nickolas recorded in his journal that he was hired to "protect colonists from Indians" NOT to fight against them. British lied to them. He, and many others, refused to fight. he was "captured" (AKA deserted), traded as a POW, then deserted again. The battle of Trent was theater - as was Hessians being marched through the streets - pure theater. The Hessians in Nicholas's group were not loyal to the British :). Nicholas named one of his kids - "George Washington". So... now you know about Christmas :)
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 5045
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: He Has Teleported

Post by moksha » Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:06 am

Speaking of the season, here is a Perspective: I celebrated Lent as a Latter-day Saint. Here’s why
The season inspires small sacrifices and makes us more receptive to others and to God.
By Hanna Seariac Apr 19, 2022

https://www.deseret.com/2022/4/19/23028 ... gethsemane
I sat alone in the pew during an Ash Wednesday service at a Catholic church in southern Utah. A kind woman sat near me, and we talked after the service concluded. She told me that one of the greatest joys of her life was Starbucks coffee, but for Lent, she was sacrificing the money she would have spent on it in order to help a young single mother in her neighborhood.

Lent inspires small sacrifices like this.

As a Latter-day Saint, I don’t typically do anything for Lent, since we celebrate Pioneer Day and Christmas...
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 47 guests