End-of-history illusion and Life after mormonism

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Linked
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End-of-history illusion and Life after mormonism

Post by Linked » Tue May 03, 2022 10:42 am

I have been angry at the church for stealing my "self" and my life from me. I was indoctrinated into an apparently false dogma from birth, and coerced into giving years of my life, money, identity, and beliefs to. I am particularly angry at the church's role in my long term life choices. My schooling and career decisions now seem much more important than I thought at the time. At the time I believed that they weren't that important because of the seemingly more important eternal side of things. I felt that as long as I was on the church path toward exaltation it didn't really matter what I did. BYU was good enough. Now I feel like I could have become so much more and I am angry that my life mentors didn't help me aim higher. I am angry with myself for not realizing.

In all that anger and sadness looking back, I have seemingly closed my eyes to looking forward. I'm still under 40 and have time and ability to do a lot of things. I have time to remake major life decisions if I choose. I can aim higher. There is hope!

One of the things that sparked these thoughts was learning about the End-of-history illusion, a psychological illusion researched by psychologist Daniel Gilbert and others. "In general, people tend to see significant changes in hindsight, but fail to predict that these changes will continue." Change is still coming, so may as well make it good change!
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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stealthbishop
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Re: End-of-history illusion and Life after mormonism

Post by stealthbishop » Wed May 04, 2022 6:48 am

You have every right to these feelings. I feel it too. For me it also includes this nagging sense of urgency and/or anxiety of making up for lost time of being who I always wanted to be but I was constrained by Mormonism. I'm in my 50s now and it's hard to let go of feelings of bitterness and resentment. I try to allow those feelings and label them and accept them and then let go of them and then with my actions try as best as I can to throw myself into the now and build a new life based on my highest values. It's hard work. I really feel similar feelings of anger but I also like a lot of who I am now and the positive things that came into my life as a result of Mormonism such as meeting my wife. I've actually had to get therapy for this and it has helped. I'm sorry you're going through it too Linked. Full support to you.
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

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Red Ryder
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Re: End-of-history illusion and Life after mormonism

Post by Red Ryder » Wed May 04, 2022 9:36 am

I’d like to respond with a quick drawing I just thought of.

Image

Is it really that bad to let go of the prescribed path a bit later in life? When you have more knowledge, wisdom, and money? I mean sure we missed out on a bunch of stuff like beer pong, drunken sailor orgies, and coed sleepovers. Perhaps we missed out on romantic relationships with unchaste lovers, fashionable underwear, and coed camping trips. We may have dodged the heroin addiction, the heartache of a broken home, and the pain of unknown suffering. But how many of us got to actually color Lehi’s dream in a coloring book? And now lived the crossover to the great and spacious building across the river?

That’s priceless.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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Linked
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Re: End-of-history illusion and Life after mormonism

Post by Linked » Wed May 04, 2022 10:45 am

stealthbishop wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 6:48 am
You have every right to these feelings. I feel it too. For me it also includes this nagging sense of urgency and/or anxiety of making up for lost time of being who I always wanted to be but I was constrained by Mormonism. I'm in my 50s now and it's hard to let go of feelings of bitterness and resentment. I try to allow those feelings and label them and accept them and then let go of them and then with my actions try as best as I can to throw myself into the now and build a new life based on my highest values. It's hard work. I really feel similar feelings of anger but I also like a lot of who I am now and the positive things that came into my life as a result of Mormonism such as meeting my wife. I've actually had to get therapy for this and it has helped. I'm sorry you're going through it too Linked. Full support to you.
Thanks Stealth! I'm also seeing a therapist about everything. I have been pretty good at allowing myself to feel the feelings without too much judgement, but when all the feelings are pain and anger and fear and exhaustion it sucks. This is the first time in a long time where I have felt real hope for the future.

I've struggled to see the good side of my mormon upbringing. How did you come around to feel good about some of it?

Naming the feelings and naming the sources is such a powerful tool. I need to be better at that.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Linked
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Re: End-of-history illusion and Life after mormonism

Post by Linked » Wed May 04, 2022 10:46 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 9:36 am
I’d like to respond with a quick drawing I just thought of.

Image

Is it really that bad to let go of the prescribed path a bit later in life? When you have more knowledge, wisdom, and money? I mean sure we missed out on a bunch of stuff like beer pong, drunken sailor orgies, and coed sleepovers. Perhaps we missed out on romantic relationships with unchaste lovers, fashionable underwear, and coed camping trips. We may have dodged the heroin addiction, the heartache of a broken home, and the pain of unknown suffering. But how many of us got to actually color Lehi’s dream in a coloring book? And now lived the crossover to the great and spacious building across the river?

That’s priceless.
Good times in primary. Funny how there is a guide rail to the tree, but you have to figure out how to cross a river with no bridge to get to the building.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Red Ryder
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Re: End-of-history illusion and Life after mormonism

Post by Red Ryder » Wed May 04, 2022 12:04 pm

I recently talked to Corsair and he wisely pointed out that at some point you just get bored of Mormonism and tired of evaluating your Mormon past. You find new hobbies that occupy the present and drive change for the future.

So Link, the question is… What do YOU want to do now?

I’ve struggled deeply with all of these same thoughts. My mistake was spending too much time trying to cross the river. For some it can be a small stream they walk across. While others it’s a raging river. That could be due to a lot of variable circumstances like family and relationships keeping us tethered or personality and character behaviors like people pleasing that keep us from making a clean break from the Mormon mindset.

It’s good to hear you’re seeing a therapist. Out of curiosity, what does the therapist have to say? Helping you find new direction or letting go of thinking errors?

Stealth, I know your background is in mental health and your wisdom is invaluable. What’s a proper course of action to alleviate the nagging voices?
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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stealthbishop
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Re: End-of-history illusion and Life after mormonism

Post by stealthbishop » Wed May 04, 2022 1:57 pm

Linked wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 10:45 am
stealthbishop wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 6:48 am
You have every right to these feelings. I feel it too. For me it also includes this nagging sense of urgency and/or anxiety of making up for lost time of being who I always wanted to be but I was constrained by Mormonism. I'm in my 50s now and it's hard to let go of feelings of bitterness and resentment. I try to allow those feelings and label them and accept them and then let go of them and then with my actions try as best as I can to throw myself into the now and build a new life based on my highest values. It's hard work. I really feel similar feelings of anger but I also like a lot of who I am now and the positive things that came into my life as a result of Mormonism such as meeting my wife. I've actually had to get therapy for this and it has helped. I'm sorry you're going through it too Linked. Full support to you.
Thanks Stealth! I'm also seeing a therapist about everything. I have been pretty good at allowing myself to feel the feelings without too much judgement, but when all the feelings are pain and anger and fear and exhaustion it sucks. This is the first time in a long time where I have felt real hope for the future.

I've struggled to see the good side of my mormon upbringing. How did you come around to feel good about some of it?

Naming the feelings and naming the sources is such a powerful tool. I need to be better at that.
Really glad you have a therapist who's helping you process all of this. It's taken a long time for me. The pain and anger (and for me--bitterness and resentment) can overwhelm any semblance of good that came into my life. Even identifying one thing that you're grateful for can help balance some of this and for me that was meeting my wife and some of my BYU friends and some positive memories I have of time as a child, youth and also being at BYU my first year. But everybody is different. The trauma I suffered shortly before my mission and during my mission is very intense and can easily overwhelm any of the positive and recently I had a relapse of trauma symptoms and it sucked! I'm only barely getting out of it now and slowly recovering my mental health. It's very hard work. Some have had so much trauma that there is no good at all that came from Mormonism. And that might be the case for you Linked at that's okay too. Working with a therapist on letting go of the past without denying it is challenging but it can help.
Last edited by stealthbishop on Wed May 04, 2022 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

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stealthbishop
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Re: End-of-history illusion and Life after mormonism

Post by stealthbishop » Wed May 04, 2022 2:04 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 12:04 pm

Stealth, I know your background is in mental health and your wisdom is invaluable. What’s a proper course of action to alleviate the nagging voices?
A therapist in this case would typically use CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy). I also like Acceptance & Commitment Therapy (ACT) and DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy). For people who are more emotionally over-controlled RO-DBT (Radically Open DBT) is the way to go. For trauma, I like EMDR.

For me it sort of depends on the person and what is a good fit. Finding a therapist who you have a good relationship with and is a good fit is probably the main thing. I think most people in this situation want a therapist who is ethical and understands Mormon culture.

As I mentioned before, I would recommend going to the Mormon Mental Health Association website 'Find A Provider' section for ethical, experienced and culturally competent therapists:

https://mormonmentalhealthassoc.org/find-a-provider/
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

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