"Earthly Identifiers" or "Don't Be Gay"

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Hagoth
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Re: "Earthly Identifiers" or "Don't Be Gay"

Post by Hagoth » Sun May 22, 2022 6:08 am

“In short, because this question puts you in touch with the Spirit of the Lord, and with the divine DNA in your spirit,” she said, “this one question can bring you more light and truth.”
Wendy should have written the DNA essay. The reason we can't find molecular evidence for the descendants of BoM peoples is that we're only looking at earthly DNA.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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stealthbishop
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Re: "Earthly Identifiers" or "Don't Be Gay"

Post by stealthbishop » Mon May 23, 2022 6:47 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 1:00 am
RMN sure seems to know what makes the adversary rejoice. Using the word Mormon and using labels! Who knew? Thanks. But I guess "Mormon " is kind of a label, isn't it? So it makes sense. We'll have to stop calling people active, inactive, members, endowed, un-endowed, full tithe payers, prospective elders, missionaries, young single adults, children of record, defenders of the faith, apologists, investigators, Christians, brothers, sisters, oh crap! Satan must be ecstatic!

No more labels, everyone.
I love this take! Well said!!!
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

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stealthbishop
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Re: "Earthly Identifiers" or "Don't Be Gay"

Post by stealthbishop » Mon May 23, 2022 6:49 am

Charlotte wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 1:08 am
Nelson also said people who leave the church don’t deserve judgment any more than people who stay in the fold deserve criticism.

“If friends and family should step away from the church, continue to love them,” he counseled. “... Let your skeptical friends see how much you love the Lord and his gospel. Surprise their doubting hearts with your believing heart.”
While I appreciate him saying not to shun people who leave, I’m dismayed when he implies that those who leave don’t love the Lord. Some of us are more focused than ever on him, and finally sincerely asking, What would Jesus do? Because we now we make decisions for ourselves.
This is what really bothers my wife so much right now even though we are basically estranged from the LDS church. She still very much considers herself a believer and a follower of Jesus.
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

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stealthbishop
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Re: "Earthly Identifiers" or "Don't Be Gay"

Post by stealthbishop » Mon May 23, 2022 6:51 am

blazerb wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:02 am
I can't help but interpret his words in light of Wendy Nelson's words from about 1.5 years ago when she told LGBT+ persons that they could pray to have their "sexual feelings be in harmony with eternal laws." Her training should have taught her that "pray the gay away" does not work. She just doubled down on harmful teachings. So until someone gets up and says that Wendy Nelson was wrong, that Boyd Packer was wrong, that Spencer Kimball was wrong, etc., it's just more of the same.

If you want to try to stomach WN's talk, you can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekVlrSr43js. You can find the discussion of prayer starting at about the 8:20 mark. The whole talk is pretty awful.
I saw this on FaceBook. So toxic and damaging. Especially coming from an MFT professor.

I think you're so right that there needs to be words and actions to disavow these toxic homophobic and transphobic traditions. I don't expect it to happen in my lifetime.
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

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SincereInquirer
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Re: "Earthly Identifiers" or "Don't Be Gay"

Post by SincereInquirer » Mon May 23, 2022 11:18 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 1:00 am
RMN sure seems to know what makes the adversary rejoice. Using the word Mormon and using labels! Who knew? Thanks. But I guess "Mormon " is kind of a label, isn't it? So it makes sense. We'll have to stop calling people active, inactive, members, endowed, un-endowed, full tithe payers, prospective elders, missionaries, young single adults, children of record, defenders of the faith, apologists, investigators, Christians, brothers, sisters, oh crap! Satan must be ecstatic!
You forgot one of my favorites..."temple worthy". :roll:
SL Trib quoting Rusty da profit wrote:"Any abuse or prejudice towards another because of nationality, race, sexual orientation, gender, educational degrees, culture or other significant identifiers is offensive to our maker."
...EXCEPT when the Mormon church does it of course. The rules apply to everyone else but not the church.
SL Trib quoting Rusty da profit wrote:“These truths ought to prompt your ultimate sense of FOMO — or fear of missing out,” he said. “You have the potential to reach the Celestial Kingdom [the faith’s highest heaven]. The ultimate FOMO would be missing out on the Celestial Kingdom, settling for a lesser kingdom because here on Earth you chose only to live the laws of a lesser kingdom."
I can happily say I have zero FOMO on missing out on the Mormon version of the Celestial Kingdom. I will be living happily in the Telestial partaking of some of that top shelf herb while listening to Hendrix.
"I don't need the Mormon church to be true, I just need it to not be verifiably false." - something I read somewhere...(help me give proper citation credit if you know where this came from)

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blazerb
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Re: "Earthly Identifiers" or "Don't Be Gay"

Post by blazerb » Wed May 25, 2022 8:14 pm

I had another thought today on the topic. It appears to me that the church really wants to be seen as tolerant in all the worldly ways without actually showing any tolerance and, in fact, decrying tolerance quite often. So we have RMN asking us not to use worldly identifiers. He sounds like he wants to unite everyone. However, if someone does not fit the normal Mormon image, they get pressured to conform at the local level. The messages that will come in less visible meetings will make clear that some labels are acceptable. Others will not be allowed.

His words remind me a little of the episode of the changing of the Honor Code. You can read the new one here: https://policy.byu.edu/view/church-educ ... honor-code. It only addresses LGBTQ+ issues obliquely when it says that sexual relations are reserved for "marriage between a man and a woman." This sounds like the rules will be the same for straight and queer alike. We all know how that turned out. Same-sex affection is going to be treated differently even if no sexual relations are involved.

This is dishonest behavior.

Cnsl1
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Re: "Earthly Identifiers" or "Don't Be Gay"

Post by Cnsl1 » Thu May 26, 2022 1:24 am

There once was a prophet named Rusty
(Whose 2nd wife was a bit busty).
He spouted some fables,
And hated the labels
Especially those that were lusty.

He said we should not call them gay,
When they could make gay go away,
If only they'd pray more,
(No, wait that was Bednar,
And Wendy thinks gays are astray).

So don't call them LGTBQ
Or Catholic, Mormon, or Jew
Lest Satan rejoices
In our poor label choices
And sends us back to BYU.

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Linked
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Re: "Earthly Identifiers" or "Don't Be Gay"

Post by Linked » Thu May 26, 2022 1:25 pm

They want to take your "self" from you.

Child of God is just as much a label as Gay, but it's the one they have assigned you so it's ok. Any self-labelling you do that isn't in line with their views takes you closer to discovering yourself separate from their teachings, which leads to apostasy. Ask me how I know...

Embracing your gayness is particularly problematic for them because they have been waging war against gayness and the "gay agenda" for a long time, so it can be a quick route out of their worldview.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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