Friendships & Family relations inside and outside of Mormonism

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Aware
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Friendships & Family relations inside and outside of Mormonism

Post by Aware » Sun May 29, 2022 7:20 pm

I'm close to 70, and looking back on mistakes made in life, and wondering what happened.

Joined the "church" in my 20's, became disillusioned with doctrine 25 years ago. Don't attend but wife does.

My brother and I lived in southern California during our youth, then I moved to Utah, got married in Logan Temple, divorced, remarried. Lots of things can happen in 70 years.

One thing I'm looking at right now is friendships, or lack thereof. My brother, a non member, has many good friends all over the place. Some are college related, some work related, others just from where he lived. We came from a slightly dysfunctional, but still loving family. Folks in our family cared about each other, based on my memories and going over old letters. And my brother and I are close. Both of us are gregarious.

What I've experienced in Utah / S. Idaho is quite different. When I was very active I'd have friends in the ward, but as soon as a boundary changed, or we moved, it was like the friends disappeared. Family relationships don't seem to have the quality that I was used to in my youth. Seems that relationships between family members aren't between the two parties, but instead have the church in the middle, sometimes directly, but more often subtly.

I suspect that there's something about being LDS that inhibits true friendship. Either it's that most emotional needs are filled by the org, or there is something about LDS minds that prohibits them from thinking / interacting out of the LDS box.

I find it almost impossible to have a deep meaningful conversation with almost all members, because they know everything that needs to be known, already. Everything has to fit within their world / next life view.

So, is this a Utah Idaho thing, a church member thing, or no thing at all?

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blazerb
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Re: Friendships & Family relations inside and outside of Mormonism

Post by blazerb » Mon May 30, 2022 5:26 am

Aware wrote:
Sun May 29, 2022 7:20 pm
I suspect that there's something about being LDS that inhibits true friendship. Either it's that most emotional needs are filled by the org, or there is something about LDS minds that prohibits them from thinking / interacting out of the LDS box.

I find it almost impossible to have a deep meaningful conversation with almost all members, because they know everything that needs to be known, already. Everything has to fit within their world / next life view.

So, is this a Utah Idaho thing, a church member thing, or no thing at all?
It happens in the church outside of Utah/Idaho, also. Some of it may be the needs that are filled by the church. Also, I think the time that the church requires makes it difficult to socialize with many people outside of your calling circle. Even more than the time, there is the mental energy that the church takes up, at least for an introvert like me. It was really hard to make time for friendships outside of church activities.

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Advocate
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Re: Friendships & Family relations inside and outside of Mormonism

Post by Advocate » Tue May 31, 2022 8:17 am

I've been thinking along the same lines for a few months now. I'm in my 40s, and am sad about how few true friends I have. I've done everything right according to the church: always active, served a mission, married early, kids early, highly educated, serve in callings, etc. I'm also an introvert which obviously doesn't help.

I think part of the challenge with making friends is having a large family. Not only does a large family require a lot of time and energy, but it makes it more challenging to get together with families and have all the kids happy (more challenging to find families with similar aged kids when families are larger).

A big part of shallow friendships / lack of true friendships is church culture. We have a culture of assigning someone to be your friend (ministering/home teaching). You can't assign someone to be a true friend, but you can assign someone to be an acquaintance/fake friend. I think this idea of assigning friends makes church members more likely to have lots of acquaintances, but fewer true friends.

Time/commitments are also a reason why being active in the church makes it hard to find true friends. We spend a lot of time doing church stuff. I've thought about getting into racing, but haven't because much of racing is on Sundays. For men at least, doing activities together (like racing) is a way to make true friends. Even if you have activities not on Sunday, the level of energy put into church is one more barrier to doing things that make friendships elsewhere.

I also think that many church members (myself included) are a bit socially awkward when it comes to alcohol consumption. Alcohol is called social lubricant for a reason. I think our social awkwardness and lack of consumption makes it hard to start the initial stages of friendship that can lead to true friends.

All this leads me to a hard question. If one is active in the church (as many here are for family reasons), what are some strategies for creating true friendships?

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moksha
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Re: Friendships & Family relations inside and outside of Mormonism

Post by moksha » Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:23 am

Aware wrote:
Sun May 29, 2022 7:20 pm
So, is this a Utah Idaho thing, a church member thing, or nothing at all?
I imagine it is a lot like living in Putin's Russia or China, where you must be super-guarded about what you say out loud since it could very well be reported to the Authorities.

Imagine being in Provo and suddenly seeing in color. You need to be cautious lest the monochromatic Saints come after you with pitchforks and torches. No need to be burnt at the Stake Center.

Hey Aware, happy 70th birthday in advance. Remember, this board welcomes your thoughts.

Advocate wrote:... what are some strategies for creating true friendships?
Reach out with a plate of baklava. The process of befriending is always a place to start.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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alas
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Re: Friendships & Family relations inside and outside of Mormonism

Post by alas » Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:28 am

Aware, I am 70, so I understand how you feel. Currently, my only friend is someone I met through NOM. I don’t have the normal social skills, cause I lived most of my life Mormon making friends at church, then moving every year or so, and my interests that I have taken up since leaving Mormonism don’t get me out with people enough. We also took up being snow birds when DH retired, so now he is really feeling it too. As snowbirds, having a calling is tricky, and he feels like an outsider in both wards. The one ward is also “tourist central” so there are two local wards and three for tourists. The tourists recently got their own building for their three wards, if you can imagine. So, in the locals minds, “snowbirds ain’t much better than (spit on the ground) toorists.” They sell T-shirts that show a big bear (it is Bear Lake) and say send more tourist, the last were delishious.

When I had little kids, I made friends with the parents of other small children. And while we were active duty military, the wards were mostly military, and we had a lot in common and everybody made friends quickly because when you move on average about 1 1/2 years everybody just makes friends because everybody is away from family and everybody is new in the ward.

Then we retired from active duty and settled in Utah. My kids were high school, so there wasn’t the interaction with other moms, and at church everybody had family, everybody had long term friendships, and everybody put on the “I am perfect” act. I couldn’t get past the perfect act to actually get to know anyone. Nobody needed friends. I worked, but …. I don’t know why but I just didn’t want close friends from work. Maybe because social work is worse than church for eating up all emotional energy. But, I loved my clients and didn’t need friends with other social workers. Well, there was one, but she was a British black person and we just had a lot in common. Now, as a retired snowbird, I don’t have friends, except one fellow NOM. And don’t know how to make friends.

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stealthbishop
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Re: Friendships & Family relations inside and outside of Mormonism

Post by stealthbishop » Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:52 am

Part of it perhaps is that LDS people are SO busy. Our time is constantly being structured with callings, temple attendance, ward socials, 10 hours of General Conference sessions, FHE, ministering, etc. You get the picture! It's a very high demand religion (amongst others). Relationships and friendships require work and time. Something has to give! Sometimes just seeing your friends at church is enough or all you can muster with everything else going on along with jobs, kids, and other household stressors. I don't think that LDS people are necessarily bad friends or fake more than anyone else. I just think we are all exhausted and doing so much more than we have strength.

With us not attending church it has been difficult on our friends. Our best friends are LDS. We all have been doing the best we can to continue these friendships and nurture them in spite of the discomfort and feelings and behaviors of all of us in this situation that are so often fraught with underlying tension when people step away from the church. It's hard. We know we have more time than they do. We try to take everything into consideration. We also know we can support them but we realize they can't fully support us.
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

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