WML - Are you in town this weekend?

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
Post Reply
User avatar
Linked
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:04 pm

WML - Are you in town this weekend?

Post by Linked » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:43 pm

I got a phone call from my ward mission leader (WML) Saturday. He's a really nice guy, he has stopped by to help with random stuff on multiple occasions. But he started the call all high pressure on me:

WML: Hi Linked, are you and your family in town this weekend?
Me: (Nope, you don't get that info before you tell me what you want) Hi WML, what can I do for you?
WML: That's not my question.
Me: Oh, that's not how this works. I don't answer that question until you tell me what you want.
WML: Oh, uh, I was just wondering if you guys could feed the missionaries tomorrow?
Me: No thanks.
WML: I just thought it would be good with your boys and all...
Me: Thanks for thinking of us, but no thanks. (And I don't appreciate your implication that you know better than me what is good for my boys.)

Awkward pleasantries and hang up.

It's frustrating when people try to build a case for you to accept their request for something before they even ask. I could stomach having the missionaries over, but not when the WML tries to metaphorically corner me into it. Not to mention all the mormons in my life trying to inoculate my kids against me. And DW hates last minute planning for having people over, so she appreciated it.

Eventually they stop asking, right?
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 4144
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: WML - Are you in town this weekend?

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:45 pm

Yup. They definitely stop asking when you constantly say no. I don’t answer texts. Nor phone calls. That really helps too.

Great job on the boundaries.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
Angel
Posts: 762
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 8:26 am

Re: WML - Are you in town this weekend?

Post by Angel » Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:06 pm

"all the mormons in my life trying to inoculate my kids against me"

I changed all our info in directory to wrong address, wrong phone number.

By the end, I had to request "no contact" with kids, and they still went after them. Oldest moved out of state to college, they had local ward going after her, really triggering - my lgbtq kid / abuse - and they tracked them down... really horrific.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

hmb
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:43 am

Re: WML - Are you in town this weekend?

Post by hmb » Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:47 am

Linked wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:43 pm


the mormons in my life trying to inoculate my kids against me.
It is sad that they really do think they are doing the right thing here. Saving those future generations who may, in turn, save you. SMH.

User avatar
jfro18
Posts: 2064
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: WML - Are you in town this weekend?

Post by jfro18 » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:41 am

Linked wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:43 pm
It's frustrating when people try to build a case for you to accept their request for something before they even ask. I could stomach having the missionaries over, but not when the WML tries to metaphorically corner me into it. Not to mention all the mormons in my life trying to inoculate my kids against me. And DW hates last minute planning for having people over, so she appreciated it.
Yep. I remember feeling that way in the temple - you don't know what you're agreeing to until you've already agreed to it.

But yeah, the most frustrating thing about Mormonism with mixed faith marriages is that your kids are being indoctrinated in ways that will create a wedge with the non-believing parents and the non-believing parent is in a no win situation where you either tell them why it's not true and look like a monster or wait until the kids (or spouse) are too far gone to even listen to it.

So sorry Linked... at some point they usually do stop asking though unless they just can't find anyone and get desperate.

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 904
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:12 pm

Re: WML - Are you in town this weekend?

Post by nibbler » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:45 am

Linked wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:43 pm
Eventually they stop asking, right?
Every ward is different. I turned down a calling. Some months later I turned down an assignment and was told I couldn't turn the assignment down. That approach didn't work as well as they thought it would. Now I'm completely invisible in my ward.

I'm cynical. I don't know whether I create cynical experiences or whether my experiences made my cynical, a bit of a chicken and egg thing, but I found that people only came up to me when they needed someone to do a church assignment. As soon as people begin to doubt that you're a person to come to for that sort of thing the community aspect of the church dries up like the Great Salt Lake.
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

User avatar
Fifi de la Vergne
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:56 am

Re: WML - Are you in town this weekend?

Post by Fifi de la Vergne » Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:41 pm

When I was in the process of detaching myself from the church, I was pulled in and asked to accept a calling. I had to ask twice what calling it was before they would tell me it was to teach RS. It really is a standard part of their playbook to hook you in any way possible without giving you any more information than they have to.

I told him I couldn't do that, meaning I couldn't teach doctrine I didn't believe in anymore, but he didn't ask. The next Sunday the same bishopric member gave a lecture over the pulpit about how we needed to be willing to serve, even when it involved sacrifice, etc. I had never, up until then, turned down a calling. I'd served in auxiliary presidencies, taught classes, hauled girls in the family van to and from girls' camp . . . but it just took that one refusal for him to assume that I'd become a faithless, slothful servant and to call me out on it. Not in person, not bothering to ask why I might be turning a calling down for the first time.

Yeah, I'm still a little bitter. When I get to feeling nostalgic about church (very rarely anymore), I'll read one of your posts or have one of these memories triggered and the nostalgia evaporates. Life is better on this side.
Joy is the emotional expression of the courageous Yes to one's own true being.

User avatar
Linked
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: WML - Are you in town this weekend?

Post by Linked » Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:40 pm

It's nice to know I'm not alone in this. Y'all are wonderful!

My mental health needs me to make a stronger break from the church, but my relationship with DW needs me to stay lightly attached.
Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:45 pm
Yup. They definitely stop asking when you constantly say no. I don’t answer texts. Nor phone calls. That really helps too.

Great job on the boundaries.
I really should stop answering. There's a little part of me that still gets excited when the phone rings, or someone knocks on the door. These people are working on killing that part of me.
Angel wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:06 pm
"all the mormons in my life trying to inoculate my kids against me"

I changed all our info in directory to wrong address, wrong phone number.

By the end, I had to request "no contact" with kids, and they still went after them. Oldest moved out of state to college, they had local ward going after her, really triggering - my lgbtq kid / abuse - and they tracked them down... really horrific.
I'm sorry to hear about your kid, that's terrible. It's dystopian on this side of things. It's been interesting to see actions go from good to evil and cruel, like trying to get people involved at church. Temples used to be such hopeful buildings, but now they are a symbol of my prison. When I was a kid Celine Deon released a song, Because You Loved Me that went "You were my strength when I was weak...I'm everything I am because you loved me." and it was playing once as I was riding in a car past a temple and had a special moment. Now I am disgusted by that memory.
hmb wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:47 am
Linked wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:43 pm


the mormons in my life trying to inoculate my kids against me.
It is sad that they really do think they are doing the right thing here. Saving those future generations who may, in turn, save you. SMH.
Sad and really frustrating. With my god dead, my relationship with my parents and siblings forever changed, and my DW struggling to accept me for me, my relationship with my kids is really important to me. And they are trying to destroy it! They still have each other, and they are trying to take all I have away. In the name of love.
jfro18 wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:41 am
Linked wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:43 pm
It's frustrating when people try to build a case for you to accept their request for something before they even ask. I could stomach having the missionaries over, but not when the WML tries to metaphorically corner me into it. Not to mention all the mormons in my life trying to inoculate my kids against me. And DW hates last minute planning for having people over, so she appreciated it.
Yep. I remember feeling that way in the temple - you don't know what you're agreeing to until you've already agreed to it.

But yeah, the most frustrating thing about Mormonism with mixed faith marriages is that your kids are being indoctrinated in ways that will create a wedge with the non-believing parents and the non-believing parent is in a no win situation where you either tell them why it's not true and look like a monster or wait until the kids (or spouse) are too far gone to even listen to it.

So sorry Linked... at some point they usually do stop asking though unless they just can't find anyone and get desperate.
Good point about the temple. That was a rough experience.

And I am not sure how to handle the kids. If they end up exmormon then they will have a similar wedge between them and their believing parent. Is there a way for them to love believers and non-believers?
nibbler wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:45 am
Linked wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:43 pm
Eventually they stop asking, right?
Every ward is different. I turned down a calling. Some months later I turned down an assignment and was told I couldn't turn the assignment down. That approach didn't work as well as they thought it would. Now I'm completely invisible in my ward.

I'm cynical. I don't know whether I create cynical experiences or whether my experiences made my cynical, a bit of a chicken and egg thing, but I found that people only came up to me when they needed someone to do a church assignment. As soon as people begin to doubt that you're a person to come to for that sort of thing the community aspect of the church dries up like the Great Salt Lake.
We need to hear more about them telling you that you couldn't turn the assignment down! There are 3 guys in my ward I'm still pretty good friends with. 1 has already tried to get me to do stuff. Another is my minister, so I'm not sure if we are friends for real or if he's checking of his mormon list. The last guy is awesome, and so far I have no reason to believe that I'm a project to him. Maybe in a few years they will all be done with me. :cry:
Fifi de la Vergne wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:41 pm
When I was in the process of detaching myself from the church, I was pulled in and asked to accept a calling. I had to ask twice what calling it was before they would tell me it was to teach RS. It really is a standard part of their playbook to hook you in any way possible without giving you any more information than they have to.

I told him I couldn't do that, meaning I couldn't teach doctrine I didn't believe in anymore, but he didn't ask. The next Sunday the same bishopric member gave a lecture over the pulpit about how we needed to be willing to serve, even when it involved sacrifice, etc. I had never, up until then, turned down a calling. I'd served in auxiliary presidencies, taught classes, hauled girls in the family van to and from girls' camp . . . but it just took that one refusal for him to assume that I'd become a faithless, slothful servant and to call me out on it. Not in person, not bothering to ask why I might be turning a calling down for the first time.

Yeah, I'm still a little bitter. When I get to feeling nostalgic about church (very rarely anymore), I'll read one of your posts or have one of these memories triggered and the nostalgia evaporates. Life is better on this side.
The high pressure tactics are so bad in the church. They take and take and take and the moment you push back they tell you that you are evil for it. Screw that. I'm glad you made it to the other side!
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
AdmiralHoldo
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:49 am
Location: Lazy Learner Land

Re: WML - Are you in town this weekend?

Post by AdmiralHoldo » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:10 pm

I guess I got lucky. For me the process went in the other direction. I became persona non grata after teaching accurate church history to 11 year olds, but I still attended for a couple of years while being on double secret probation. When I stopped attending, hardly anyone noticed. I already didn't have anyone "ministering" to me and it had been ages since I'd been asked to feed the missionaries (I guess in the fear I would teach *them* accurate church history as well). When I decided to stop going to church, my oldest child joked "get ready for the love bombing," but really, nobody cares that I'm not there and I'm 100% fine with that.

On the extremely rare occasion that someone reaches out to us, I've found that "thank you for thinking of us," followed by a firm no, is the way to go. It's still polite (we HAVE to be polite) but doesn't leave any room for arguing. Most recently it was about DD14 starting seminary in the fall. I said "she is not planning to attend seminary," which is true, and I didn't soften it by saying 'at this time' or any other phrase that would open us up to having the same conversation in the future.

Cnsl1
Posts: 581
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:27 pm

Re: WML - Are you in town this weekend?

Post by Cnsl1 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:33 am

I've found that having boundaries is crucial. Know what you can and cannot do.

I recognize that in a church of volunteers, members kind of have to take turns doing the hard jobs. Some of them like the big callings; some just serve as best they can when asked and hope it doesn't last too long. Some just say no. Several never turn down a calling, even if they hate it, and some accept callings then never really fulfill the calling very well. I've wondered before if this is an area where some Mormons learn to develop passive aggressive behavior. They won't turn it down because they never turn down a calling, but they don't do it well because they don't want that calling and are mad they were called. I don't know. I think others are ambivalent about many callings and realize that it doesn't really matter what they do.

I also recognize that leaders can get the mentality that everyone NEEDS a calling, so they'll find stupid things for people to do. Do wards really need a prayer coordinator? And the word "specialist" gets tossed around pretty loosely within callings.

I've been in those meetings. We gotta find a calling for Sis Smith and Bro Jones. It's a constant game of musical chairs that prob takes the bulk of bishopric time. Primary President wants Bro and Sis Wang to be the nursery leaders, but she has to run it through the bpric. Then don't forget to set everyone apart.

I'm so glad I'm out of that game. I'll still do some things because I like most of the people involved, but I'm done with the church rat race.

User avatar
stealthbishop
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:25 am

Re: WML - Are you in town this weekend?

Post by stealthbishop » Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:43 am

Beautiful job setting and following through on boundaries. Challenging for many of us. Very well done!
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 904
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:12 pm

Re: WML - Are you in town this weekend?

Post by nibbler » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:15 pm

Linked wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:40 pm
We need to hear more about them telling you that you couldn't turn the assignment down!
It wasn't one of the local leader's finest moments and it wasn't one of mine either.

There wasn't a whole lot to it. The following took place all in one conversation, it wasn't a thing where they'd ask and come back a few weeks later, this particular bag of chips was finished all in one sitting.

I got handed an assignment (ministering).
I told them I opted out of ministering.
They told me I couldn't.
I reiterated I opted out.
They told me I couldn't, citing the bishop as an appeal to authority.
I reiterated I opted out.
They insisted that I couldn't.
At that point I kinda blew up on them. Told them they needed to respect people's boundaries.

Like I said, not one of my finer moments. I immediately regretted blowing up like that, mostly because I'm a people pleaser to a fault. In retrospect I still regret reacting the way I did but I probably shouldn't. They were out of line. I was free to ignore them but my emotions certainly got the better of me.

I'm sure my reaction on that day had a lot to do with why I became invisible in that ward. "There goes a guy that not only says no but means it."
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

User avatar
wtfluff
Posts: 3629
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: WML - Are you in town this weekend?

Post by wtfluff » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:28 pm

nibbler wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:15 pm
...
I got handed an assignment (ministering).
I told them I opted out of ministering.
They told me I couldn't.
...
I remember my last experience with this. I think the trademark was still "Home Teaching™" then. I likely hadn't attended for a year? The new EQP from the newly divided ward showed up on my porch and handed me a list of families and told me that he was my "companion." I basically said "let me know when you schedule something" alluding that he was "senior companion" and I never heard anything.

My inner social reject that wants to stir the pot always hoped that someone should show up again and hand me a list - and "in my dreams" I reply something like this: "Look, you and I both know that I'm NOT going to do this. If you want to "assign" me families, assign me "them" (I point to the home 3 doors east of me - another friendly apostate family) and "them" (I point to a home 3 doors north of me - a part member/apostate family.) Go ahead and mark me for %100 in perpetuity as far as visiting those families. If they "need" anything from LD$-Inc. I'll be sure to let you know."
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 7075
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: WML - Are you in town this weekend?

Post by Hagoth » Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:34 pm

I was informed that I had a new ministering companion and new families. I said, "no thanks. Sister Hagoth is my companion and we will continue visiting the same two families, regardless of what kinds of assignments you make." That has happened twice and we are still dropping by with fresh baked bread every month to the same friends we have visited for the past 15 years or so. It's funny to see how they react when they realize they have no actual authority over you. It also helps when you're inactive and they don't want to "offend" you. Even if the church vanished into thin air we would probably keep doing the same thing.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 47 guests