More lifting from Old Testament?

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stuck
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More lifting from Old Testament?

Post by stuck » Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:30 am

I was listening to the history in the bible podcast and he spoke about The Benjamites stealing Canannite women to have for wives. This seems pretty similar to the priests of King noah who stole the Lamanite women to marry. Compare Judges 21:18-23 with Mosiah 20:1-5.

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Red Ryder
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Re: More lifting from Old Testament?

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:26 am

Go read the FARMs apologetics where they state that “Bride Capture” was a common “ancient” practice!
Some have criticized the Book of Mormon because a similar kidnapping story can be found in Judges. After a desolation which killed many Benjamite women, there were not enough women for the men. The indiscriminate elders of Israel instructed them as follows, Go and lie in wait in the vineyards; And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin (Judges 21:20-21). The elders of Israel had effectively reduced courtship into a footrace in which the man gets the bride who can't outrun him. The similarity between the stories ends here. The situations are actually quite different and the argument that the Book of Mormon is a plagiarism is again unfounded.

"Bride capture is, in fact, an old idea and was found throughout much of the ancient world, not just in Israel. The fact that two different Israelite groups practiced it on a one-time basis is not at all unexpected, particularly if the priests of Noah were acquainted with the story from Judges 19-21." (FARMS Review of books, vol. 4, p. 226)
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Hagoth
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Re: More lifting from Old Testament?

Post by Hagoth » Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:15 pm

Yeah, funny how those stories just keep repeating:
Ether 8:10 And now, therefore, let my father send for Akish, the son of Kimnor; and behold, I am fair, and I will dance before him, and I will please him, that he will desire me to wife; wherefore if he shall desire of thee that ye shall give unto him me to wife, then shall ye say: I will give her if ye will bring unto me the head of my father, the king.
Mark 6:22 And when the daughter of the said Herodias came in, and danced, and pleased Herod and them that sat with him, the king said unto the damsel, Ask of me whatsoever thou wilt, and I will give it thee. 23 And he sware unto her, Whatsoever thou shalt ask of me, I will give it thee, unto the half of my kingdom. 24 And she went forth, and said unto her mother, What shall I ask? And she said, The head of John the Baptist.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Red Ryder
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Re: More lifting from Old Testament?

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:51 pm

Here’s a great table of other comparisons.

https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful ... s-project/
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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Hagoth
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Re: More lifting from Old Testament?

Post by Hagoth » Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:09 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:51 pm
Here’s a great table of other comparisons.

https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful ... s-project/
The really telling thing here is how many of these verses are lifted from the New Testament, but included in the BoM's timeframe BEFORE they were written by the NT authors. This is pretty much what broke my shelf once and for all.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: More lifting from Old Testament?

Post by moksha » Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:36 am

Good thing there were no nearby gentile towns in early Utah where Mormons could practice bride raiding.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

stuck
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Re: More lifting from Old Testament?

Post by stuck » Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:57 am

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:09 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:51 pm
Here’s a great table of other comparisons.

https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful ... s-project/
The really telling thing here is how many of these verses are lifted from the New Testament, but included in the BoM's timeframe BEFORE they were written by the NT authors. This is pretty much what broke my shelf once and for all.
Wow, that's a lot of lifting or plagiarism! And as you point out it supposedly took place hundreds of years before Christ. If the Book of Mormon was true, I don't think it would have so many plagiarised words or phrases that was written hundreds of years later far removed from the Middle East by Mormon who wouldn't have had access to it; unless he was able to read it like JS supposedly read John's epistle in his mind's eye or from seer stone. "The thought makes reason stare."

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