“By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt. 7:20) - Seven years of sex abuse: How Mormon officials let it happen

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annotatedbom
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Re: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt. 7:20) - Seven years of sex abuse: How Mormon officials let it happen

Post by annotatedbom » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:26 am

Just This Guy wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:58 am
One suggestion on your letter. I would include a clause stating that you will record any interview that you attend with your children. Furthermore, you reserve the right to publicly publish any part of the interview. Knowing that you will hold them accountable for their actions publicly will have a reaction.
That's a great suggestion. It would certainly put a wet blanket on their enthusiasm to ask inappropriate questions. I added it to the example letter I have out there, and I credited you. If you'd rather not have that list your NOM name, just say the word.

Fortunately for me, at the time I sent my letter, it had enough of a chilling effect that the bishopric seemed to just back off almost entirely. In addition, my kids who were still minors at the time were no longer interested in church, so no more Mormon child, sex interviews where held in la familia A-BoM.

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Hagoth
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Re: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt. 7:20) - Seven years of sex abuse: How Mormon officials let it happen

Post by Hagoth » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:31 am

I heard an interview with a lawyer who specializes in clerical sexual abuse. He had represented over 100 victims of the the Catholic church (IIRC) and many of the LDS church. He said he didn't know how long he could continue working with Mormon victims because the LDS lawyers are the coldest, least sympathetic, most dishonest people he has ever encountered. The Catholics at least showed some concern and remorse for the victims. The Mormons were 100% weasel.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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annotatedbom
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Re: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt. 7:20) - Seven years of sex abuse: How Mormon officials let it happen

Post by annotatedbom » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:34 am

stealthbishop wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:50 am
What can I say? How many people including Alas and many others all the way through Sam Young and beyond have been talking about this sh*t for years and trying to beg and plead and scream and shame the church for some measure of reforms. The bottom line is that the LDS church is not a safe place for children. What did Jesus say again about offending the little ones? LDS church--you deserve a millstone.
This. It's crazy, because the Church has implemented some of the stuff Sam Young recommended. All who work with youth now have to go through training for example. It's all two-deep with adult supervisors now (except the G__ damned ecclesiastical child sex interviews themselves - what the hell?!). My still believing wife even brought up the training as if it was something the Church should get kudos for. I didn't have the heart to tell her "Way too little and way too late. Oh, and by the way, they figuratively stabbed the guy in the back most responsible for the changes, by excommunicating him." It's just sick.

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annotatedbom
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Re: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt. 7:20) - Seven years of sex abuse: How Mormon officials let it happen

Post by annotatedbom » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:48 am

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:31 am
I heard an interview with a lawyer who specializes in clerical sexual abuse. He had represented over 100 victims of the the Catholic church (IIRC) and many of the LDS church. He said he didn't know how long he could continue working with Mormon victims because the LDS lawyers are the coldest, least sympathetic, most dishonest people he has ever encountered. The Catholics at least showed some concern and remorse for the victims. The Mormons were 100% weasel.
I know this is anecdotal, but it seems likely and doesn't surprise me. La Iglesia Catolica has taken a beating in courts of law and in the court of public opinion over this. La Iglesia Mormon seems to think it's above all that. I hope they get proved wrong real soon.

Who will step up to be the Leah Remini of Mormonism? Steve Young, you lurking out there? Donny? I don't think either of them has quite the same star power as Leah, and they certainly are not as charismatic.

Wonderment
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Re: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt. 7:20) - Seven years of sex abuse: How Mormon officials let it happen

Post by Wonderment » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:21 pm

It's a terrible issue. There really are no active members who can speak up very much without being ex-communicated. Marie Osmond has spoken up very strongly on behalf of her gay daughter whose same-sex marriage could not be performed in the temple. But Marie is still an active, tithe-paying member. I'm pretty sure that Steve Young is still a member, along with screenwriter Carol Lynn Pearson.
I don't think that the Roman Catholic church ex-communicates its members as easily as the LDS church does. The Catholics seem to be a bigger tent in terms of a variety of beliefs. ( But I could be incorrect about that).

Contributing to the tragedy of the abuse is the isolation ( both emotional and physical) of many members. I've written here about the book "Educated" by Tara Westover, where the children suffered extreme neglect and abuse, living on the outskirts of a small little town in Idaho. The mother to this day is still afraid of defying the priesthood authority of her husband and will not meet with her daughter. Mormon families are spread out through very rural areas of the American West, often with little contact to anyone outside of church. The family in Bisbee, AZ was outside of town, down a dirt road, virtually cut off from the world.
Women are conditioned to submit unquestioningly to priesthood authority of their husbands and church officials. Although Catholic women are still subjugated by the church, it seems as if they face less pressure to submit to their husbands as holding the authority to receive revelation from God. It is a huge, tragic issue.
It really took the coronation of more liberal-thinking Pope Francis to start to put a check on the widespread abuse. It also took all the lawsuits, going back almost 25 years. The uncovering of the Catholic church abuse scandals started about 25 years ago or more.

JMO, but the LDS church will not begin to change until they have to start paying large financial settlements. The church understands money and the loss of it for the corporation. And there will have to be a movement to lessen the indoctrination of women to submit to priesthood authority and to understand the difference between the priesthood and unrighteous dominion.
This is just my opinion, and I do understand that others may see this situation very differently. -- Wndr.

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annotatedbom
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Re: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt. 7:20) - Seven years of sex abuse: How Mormon officials let it happen

Post by annotatedbom » Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:40 am

Wonderment,

I really appreciate you putting this into context regarding the decades-long time frame of the Catholic Church sex scandal. Though it's distressing to think it may take so long, it gives me hope that the Boy Scout settlement and these current cases against the Church may be just the start of substantive change in how the Mormon Church protects people.
Wonderment wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:21 pm
JMO, but the LDS church will not begin to change until they have to start paying large financial settlements. The church understands money and the loss of it for the corporation. And there will have to be a movement to lessen the indoctrination of women to submit to priesthood authority and to understand the difference between the priesthood and unrighteous dominion.
This is just my opinion, and I do understand that others may see this situation very differently. -- Wndr.
I agree. I wish they seemed motivated by doing what's right, including protecting the most vulnerable. To me it looks like they're more motivated by making themselves and the organization look good. Fourteen years after I realized I no longer believed the top 15 had any unique communion with God, it's still so disappointing and sad to me to see them acting like the priest in the parable of the Good Samaritan.

Wonderment
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Re: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt. 7:20) - Seven years of sex abuse: How Mormon officials let it happen

Post by Wonderment » Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:24 pm

annotatedbom: Many thanks to you for posting this very important topic and for overseeing the discussion so well. It's very important to have a reflective, thoughtful dialogue on this very serious and tragic issue. I appreciate the viewpoints of everyone who posted here. Thanks again, best wishes from Wonderment.

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moksha
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Re: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt. 7:20) - Seven years of sex abuse: How Mormon officials let it happen

Post by moksha » Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:50 pm

This is one of those must-hear podcasts because it will be so eye-opening of how bad the LDS Church behaves:
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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annotatedbom
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Re: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt. 7:20) - Seven years of sex abuse: How Mormon officials let it happen

Post by annotatedbom » Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:32 pm

Wonderment wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:24 pm
annotatedbom: Many thanks to you for posting this very important topic and for overseeing the discussion so well. It's very important to have a reflective, thoughtful dialogue on this very serious and tragic issue. I appreciate the viewpoints of everyone who posted here. Thanks again, best wishes from Wonderment.
Thank you Wonderment! I love just being recognized by you, but I didn't really do much. I just got upset, vented to you all, and then appreciated the perspective of my beloved NOMies. As usual, all NOMie comments were wonderful, even if not not all could be Wonderment!

moksha wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:50 pm
This is one of those must-hear podcasts because it will be so eye-opening of how bad the LDS Church behaves:
Thank you for posting this. I don't know if I'll listen. I just don't have the desire to listen to much about Mormonism anymore (I made an exception and listened to JFro's Mormon Stories episode about Joseph Smith's treasure digging - of course, it was excellent!). However, I'm sure this Mormon Stories podcast about how the Church handles abuse is timely and well done. Again, thanks!

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