child's baptism -- help

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Tangent
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child's baptism -- help

Post by Tangent » Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:13 pm

Hello everyone,

I have a child turning 8 in the near future. Whether or not I baptize him (or am even allowed to) is causing me a lot of stress.

My situation -- i have not not believed for many years, have not had a recommend for a while now, and I do not pay tithing. Other than that I fully participate. DW is fully in. I'm out to DW and older children but the younger kids are too young to really 'get it' or care. I'm also out to the bishop.

I missed a child's wedding earlier this year due to lack of a TR and that was difficult. In the end the anticipation was the worst part; on the day of the event it was more manageable than i feared it would be. I just had to remember that ultimately these events are not about me, I just need to suck it up. Still, a complicated day. Both joyous and sad. In addition, I missed ordaining an older son to the MP.

But I'm dreading this baptism more because my DS -- being young of course -- may have a difficult time understanding the situation and why I'm not performing the ordinance. I don't want to hurt him or have him feel bad. The other part (the more selfish part) is that I don't want to sit there looking like a doofus while half the ward wonders why i'm not baptizing my kid. What's supposed to be a special, bonding experience turns into a public shaming in situations like this.

For those who have confronted this, what did you do? I'm torn because while on one hand I don't mind baptizing him. I view this as a social rite of passage, and committing oneself to be a better person isn't a bad thing. On there other hand, after sitting out the other events, it feels weird to pick and choose what I do. Plus my DW feels that if I don't believe i shouldn't do it. And I'll have to get approval from the bishop to do it. I should also be clear that whether DS gets baptized is not up for discussion. It's just whether I'll do it or someone else.

For those who did baptize your child, how did it go? If you didn't, was it your choice, or were you not allowed? How did you explain things to your kid?

thanks.

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wtfluff
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Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by wtfluff » Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:59 pm

Tell Mr. Bishop that you're going to do a "small" milestone celebration - just close friends and family - have your older son baptize the younger son in your backyard swimming pool, and another family member give him the Gift of Casper.

The only thing your son will remember about the day is how cool it was to get baptized in your pool.

(If you don't have a pool, borrow one from a neighbor.)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

Tangent
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Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by Tangent » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:03 pm

Nice! how did it go when you tried this? :lol:

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Linked
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Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by Linked » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:55 pm

I have been thru this twice, once earlier this year. Your situation is nearly identical to mine, except I don't have older kids. With both kids we planned their baptism and talked about the different parts of the baptismal program and let them pick who they wanted to do what. I lucked out because both kids picked me to do the baptism and someone else to do the confirmation. I participated in the confirmation circle as well. The bishop never asked me anything despite my lack of temple recommend or attendance at tithing settlement. I didn't have to explain anything to my kids.

I felt like it was really important for me to participate in this milestone for my kids. It felt like if I didn't then I was ceding some of my fatherhood to others, and I would never do that. My TBM DW was happy that the kids had their special day and got baptized, I am lucky there too. The first kid's baptism was really stressful, I wasn't sure how it would all go down or if the bishop would ruin things, but everything went just fine. The second one was pretty stress free other than dealing with all the dogmatic comments that make my unbelieving eyes roll. I tried to remember that I get everyday with my kids and can play the long game.

Don't worry about the ward or anyone not your DS. This is 110% about your DS and your relationship with him.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

Tangent
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Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by Tangent » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:18 pm

Thanks Linked for your reply. It helps to know other have successfully navigated this conundrum.

I'm glad it worked out well for you, and that your TBM DW was on board. As i mentioned in my OP that is a little bit of a delicate topic for us. I agree that the way the church has set things up, it really is a parent and child event, and it just doesn't feel good to think about sitting out as an observer only.

I do have one other point of reference. My BIL is a somewhat participating non-believer. He ended up baptizing his son but having someone else confirm. He had talked to his bishop and the bishop said he was OK with BIL baptizing, but since confirmation is a MP function then the interview would have to go a deeper before he'd allow it. My BIL decided to leave it at that -- baptism only. I could handle that as well. I think baptism is the main think I want to do myself. Confirmation i'm more OK with someone else doing.

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Red Ryder
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Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:54 pm

I baptized my last kid 10 years ago. It was literally a month after they changed the rules where you need the Temple Recommend to do the confirmation. I wasn’t fully out yet to family and my bishop wouldn’t budge on the rule change. He merely suggested I renew my recommend. I had not paid tithing in 5 years. All he said was that he didn’t require a reconciliation or any back tithing. Simply just said that I needed to start paying again but that he needed to know I was committed and therefore should show him my commitment was sufficient. Not sure how I reconciled that in my brain but I recall writing a check for $2400 and sitting through a recommend interview the next week.

I sort of regret now that I actually went through with the pay to play solution. If I could have a do over I would have just did the baptism and let grandpa or neighbor Pete do the confirmation.

If you work this right, you could make it a family deal.

You baptize the kid.
Your wife gets to be a witness
Grandpa gets to confirm the Holy Ghost.
Older children can do talks and prayers.
Your 8 year old kid gets to pick the place for ice cream after it’s all over.
Everyone wins!

There’s more than one way to Mormon.

Pick what works for your family.
Don’t waste the emotional energy worrying about any of it.
You hold the power.

If bishop pushed back then just quote him the Elder Boyd K Packer talk about the inactive dad that was told to baptize his kid.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

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alas
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Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by alas » Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:24 pm

Seeing as you are already out to your bishop, talk it over with him. Often they will let a less than perfect in the eyes of the church do the baptism.

The main thing is, make sure your kid feels special. I didn’t care that my dad wasn’t going to baptist me because my grandfather baptized my older brothers, but then for 11 months, my grandfather couldn’t be bothered getting the one day a month off work. Finally, my grandmother threw a hissy fit about I was about to turn nine, not at my grandfather for not bothering to get the day off, but at my mother. So, I was dunked against my will by a total stranger and then confirmed by another stranger with no relative there but my mother. Yeah, I didn’t feel like it was for me at all, but I was getting baptized because it would inconvenience the church if I turned 9 undunked. It hurt bad that nobody gave 2 cents for what I wanted or cared about me, just the church and what was best for it. And it was obvious that my grandfather loved my brothers more than he loved a me because I was a girl. I knew it was because I was the wrong gender. I knew I would never be important to the church, but I had to make it happy.

So, I made sure that my kids got what they wanted, even if I went up against the bishopric to demand that my kid got their special requests, if not then we all could wait till they were 18. The 2nd counselor gave me a look like “you wouldn’t dare!” And I just looked back, “don’t temp me.” My child felt like people cared.

Cnsl1
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Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by Cnsl1 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:31 am

Have you considered having older brother baptize little brother?

I see that a lot. It would probably be special to both of them.

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moksha
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Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by moksha » Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:36 am

Life will go on whether you baptize the child or not. Talk to the bishop, if they are a decent person then they will help make this happen. If you can do the baptism, you might as well grin and bear it. If they are not, you can explain it to your child when he is a bit older.

Just because children are baptized does not mean they are condemned to a life of Mormontude.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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wtfluff
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Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by wtfluff » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:21 am

Tangent wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:03 pm
Nice! how did it go when you tried this? :lol:
This statement came right after my post, so I'll assume this question is pointing at me.

My pool scenario is just that: A scenario. Not my experience, but I have a friend who has wanted to do something like I mentioned. It hasn't worked out so far and doesn't look like it will.


Personally, I got extremely lucky when it came to MORmON milestones, and my awakening. Our family had two milestones coming up right as everthing came crashing down for me. My children who were lined up for those milestones literally made the decision that they did not want to go through with the milestones, and amazingly, my believing spouse respected their "agency." The dodging of those bullets was a HUGE relief of stress...
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

Tangent
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:17 pm

Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by Tangent » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:03 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:54 pm
I baptized my last kid 10 years ago. It was literally a month after they changed the rules where you need the Temple Recommend to do the confirmation. I wasn’t fully out yet to family and my bishop wouldn’t budge on the rule change. He merely suggested I renew my recommend. I had not paid tithing in 5 years. All he said was that he didn’t require a reconciliation or any back tithing. Simply just said that I needed to start paying again but that he needed to know I was committed and therefore should show him my commitment was sufficient. Not sure how I reconciled that in my brain but I recall writing a check for $2400 and sitting through a recommend interview the next week.

I sort of regret now that I actually went through with the pay to play solution. If I could have a do over I would have just did the baptism and let grandpa or neighbor Pete do the confirmation.

If you work this right, you could make it a family deal.

You baptize the kid.
Your wife gets to be a witness
Grandpa gets to confirm the Holy Ghost.
Older children can do talks and prayers.
Your 8 year old kid gets to pick the place for ice cream after it’s all over.
Everyone wins!

There’s more than one way to Mormon.

Pick what works for your family.
Don’t waste the emotional energy worrying about any of it.
You hold the power.

If bishop pushed back then just quote him the Elder Boyd K Packer talk about the inactive dad that was told to baptize his kid.
Thanks RR. Wow I feel for you on the tithing check. A money exchange for the permission to confirm your child makes the church look really bad.

I agree this will probably be a family deal. I can envision myself (or perhaps my oldest son) doing the baptism, and grandpa doing the confirmation, and other family members doing the rest.

Tangent
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Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by Tangent » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:07 am

wtfluff wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:21 am
Tangent wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:03 pm
Nice! how did it go when you tried this? :lol:
This statement came right after my post, so I'll assume this question is pointing at me.

My pool scenario is just that: A scenario. Not my experience, but I have a friend who has wanted to do something like I mentioned. It hasn't worked out so far and doesn't look like it will.


Personally, I got extremely lucky when it came to MORmON milestones, and my awakening. Our family had two milestones coming up right as everthing came crashing down for me. My children who were lined up for those milestones literally made the decision that they did not want to go through with the milestones, and amazingly, my believing spouse respected their "agency." The dodging of those bullets was a HUGE relief of stress...
you are one lucky emu...

Tangent
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:17 pm

Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by Tangent » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:10 am

moksha wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:36 am
Life will go on whether you baptize the child or not. Talk to the bishop, if they are a decent person then they will help make this happen. If you can do the baptism, you might as well grin and bear it. If they are not, you can explain it to your child when he is a bit older.

Just because children are baptized does not mean they are condemned to a life of Mormontude.
Wise words. As with the missed wedding I referred to in my OP, often the anxiety leading up to the event is the worst part. Even though there may be discomfort, it will quickly be over and life will move on.

Thanks.

Tangent
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:17 pm

Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by Tangent » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:14 am

alas wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:24 pm
Seeing as you are already out to your bishop, talk it over with him. Often they will let a less than perfect in the eyes of the church do the baptism.

The main thing is, make sure your kid feels special. I didn’t care that my dad wasn’t going to baptist me because my grandfather baptized my older brothers, but then for 11 months, my grandfather couldn’t be bothered getting the one day a month off work. Finally, my grandmother threw a hissy fit about I was about to turn nine, not at my grandfather for not bothering to get the day off, but at my mother. So, I was dunked against my will by a total stranger and then confirmed by another stranger with no relative there but my mother. Yeah, I didn’t feel like it was for me at all, but I was getting baptized because it would inconvenience the church if I turned 9 undunked. It hurt bad that nobody gave 2 cents for what I wanted or cared about me, just the church and what was best for it. And it was obvious that my grandfather loved my brothers more than he loved a me because I was a girl. I knew it was because I was the wrong gender. I knew I would never be important to the church, but I had to make it happy.

So, I made sure that my kids got what they wanted, even if I went up against the bishopric to demand that my kid got their special requests, if not then we all could wait till they were 18. The 2nd counselor gave me a look like “you wouldn’t dare!” And I just looked back, “don’t temp me.” My child felt like people cared.
Thanks Alas. I will definitely talk to the bishop. He is a reasonable guy and I'm sure we can work something out. My guess is that he's OK with the baptism. He may even be OK with confirming but I'm not concerned about that as I'm not sure I would do that anyway.

I agree, the important thing is that my kid feels special. I'm so sorry your experience turned out as it did.

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Hagoth
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Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by Hagoth » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:25 am

I have no specific advice. I just want to comment that there is an obvious worthiness problem here. This church is not worthy of you.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Emower
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Re: child's baptism -- help

Post by Emower » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:35 pm

My kids just didn't get baptized. They still are not. I explained to my DW and extended family that I would feel un-authentic doing it despite my unbelief. I explained that I also would be uncomfortable with someone else doing it, and if someone else did I would be having a very in depth detailed discussion with the kid about why Dad wasn't doing it. I explained that I felt like the kids were too young for that discussion and DW agreed. So the kids will be baptized when they are old enough to have an intelligent conversation about why they want to be baptized and not before that. So far DS is 11 and DD is 8 and neither have expressed much interest in getting dunked.

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