The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

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jfro18
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The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by jfro18 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:41 pm

Well you know this story is really hurting them as they've now released another statement going after the AP for their reporting:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... abuse-case

They give a ton of bullet points about what the help line does yet in the end it boils down to them not calling police in Arizona which is a state where they were allowed to do so.

Oh and this gem: "We are puzzled as to why or how a media source as respected as the Associated Press would make such egregious errors in reporting and editing."

It's amazing they release that with a straight face given that they "make such egregious errors" about their history and doctrines in their lessons and manuals every week.

Absolute BS - just admit you screwed up and make some positive changes you soulless corporate #$%$#%#.

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Red Ryder
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:56 am

Sister Ryder read the statement to me after seeing a post of Facebook.

It appears the church laid out some more details around the timeline that the AP article missed or got wrong.

Paraphrasing:
One “limited” instance of abuse was confessed
Helpline was used to navigate complexity of state mandatory reporting requirements.
Church tried to get abuser to stop and repent
Church tried to get mother to intervene.
Mother did not which she spent time in prison for.
Abuser was excommunicated after 2 years.
Abuser was inactive
Church couldn’t do anything as they exhausted efforts.
Not church’s fault. We followed the law.
Church is special and loves children.
Church doesn’t tolerate abuse (nor reports according to state laws)
Aren’t we special??
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“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

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Red Ryder
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:00 am

I’m quoting the statement here to preserve in case it gets redacted or flushed down the memory hole.
For generations, leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have spoken in the strongest of terms about the evils of abuse and the need to care for those who are victims or survivors of abuse. From the thundering rebuke of former President Gordon B. Hinckley to the recent words of healing offered by Elder Patrick Kearon of the Presidency of the Seventy, our feelings are clear. We echo those sentiments and teachings today. Our hearts are broken as we learn of any abuse. It cannot be tolerated. It cannot be excused. The Savior Jesus Christ wants us all to do better and be better.

It is important to us that our members and friends understand how deeply we feel about this subject. It is also important that they have accurate information about how we approach this matter.

Church leaders and members are instructed in the Church’s “General Handbook” that their responsibilities related to abuse are as follows:

Assure that child sexual abuse is stopped;
Help victims receive care, including from professional counselors; and
Comply with whatever reporting is required by law.
Since the Church released its first statement about the Associated Press story, many have wondered about what was incorrect or mischaracterized in their reporting. The information and details below are provided to help media, members and others understand how the Church approaches the topic of child abuse, particularly as it relates to this specific case.

What did the Associated Press story get wrong?

The AP story has significant flaws in its facts and timeline, which lead to erroneous conclusions.

We are puzzled as to why or how a media source as respected as the Associated Press would make such egregious errors in reporting and editing.

Each of the facts below is contained in public filings in the pending case and is taken from the sworn testimony of Leizza Adams, the mother of the victims. The Associated Press was directed to those filings prior to the publication of their first story, but they chose not to include any of them. Those filings, accessible to and familiar to the Associated Press, are the source for the following facts:

In late 2011, Paul Adams made a limited confession to his bishop about a single past incident of abuse of one child. The bishop then called the help line, where he was advised about how to fully comply with Arizona’s reporting laws. In compliance with that counsel, from that time forward, the bishop repeatedly tried to intervene and encourage reporting, including by:
Counseling Paul Adams to repent and seek professional help;
Asking Paul Adams to report (he refused and also refused to give permission to the bishop to make the report);
Encouraging Paul Adams's wife, Leizza, to report (she refused and later served time in prison for her role);
Encouraging Paul Adams to move out of the home (which he did temporarily);
Urging Leizza to seek professional counseling for Paul and their children, which would trigger a mandatory report (they refused).
In 2013, Adams was excommunicated for his behavior and lost his membership in the Church.
Prior to and after his limited confession, Paul rarely attended Church or talked to leaders.
It wasn't until 2017, nearly four years later, that Church leaders learned from media reports the extent of the abuse, that the abuse had continued and that it involved a second victim born after Paul’s excommunication.
The AP story ignores this timeline and sequence of events and implies that all these facts were known by a bishop as early as 2011, a clearly erroneous conclusion.

The suggestion that the help line is used to “cover up” abuse is completely false.

The Church's abuse help line has everything to do with protecting children and has nothing to do with cover-up. It has been in existence for more than a quarter of a century. Its purpose is to:
Comply with the various laws of child abuse reporting in all 50 states and the provinces of Canada, ministering to the needs of victims and their families where we can, while reporting abuse consistent with the law.
To encourage victims, family members and perpetrators to seek professional counseling and to report abuse to the authorities themselves.
To directly report the abuse to authorities, regardless of legal exemptions from reporting requirements, when it is known that a child is in imminent danger. The help line routinely reports cases of child abuse to authorities. Outside experts who are aware of the Helpline have regularly praised it.
Even when a report is not required or is even prohibited by law (because the confession is “owned” by the confessor), the help line encourages leaders to pursue ways to ensure these three goals are met.
Those who serve on the help line are parents and grandparents themselves and include former government child abuse investigators and child abuse prosecutors. Some are even themselves survivors of abuse. The notion that there would be any incentive on their part to cover up child abuse is absurd.

Conclusion

We strive to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, who spoke powerfully and repeatedly about the precious value of children and condemned those who would mistreat them. These are the ideals that characterize our understanding and approach to the issue of child abuse. What happened to the Adams children in Arizona at the hands of their parents is sickening, heartbreaking and inexcusable.

The Church has issued a strong response because this is a topic where there can be no mincing of words, no hint of apathy, and no tolerance for any suggestion that we are neglectful or not doing enough on the issue of child abuse. It is a matter that strikes at our hearts and is so deeply offensive to everything that we value. We will not stand by while others mischaracterize or completely misrepresent the Church’s long-term efforts and commitment. Nor will we tolerate the Associated Press or any other media to make such gross errors on the details of such a tragic and horrific incident as what occurred in Arizona. We are constantly striving to be better and do more, and we invite others to join us in such efforts.

President Gordon B. Hinckley

“Countless numbers of [children] cry out in fear and loneliness from the evil consequences of moral transgression, neglect, and abuse. I speak plainly, perhaps indelicately. But I know of no other way to make clear a matter about which I feel so strongly.

“…there is the terrible, inexcusable, and evil phenomenon of physical and sexual abuse.

It is unnecessary. It is unjustified. It is indefensible.

“…there is the terrible, vicious practice of sexual abuse. It is beyond understanding. It is an affront to the decency that ought to exist in every man and woman. It is a violation of that which is sacred and divine. It is destructive in the lives of children. It is reprehensible and worthy of the most severe condemnation.” (President Gordon B. Hinckley; Save the Children, General Conference, October 1994)

Elder Patrick Kearon

“There is no place for any kind of abuse—physical, sexual, emotional, or verbal—in any home, any country, or any culture.

“The abuse was not, is not, and never will be your fault, no matter what the abuser or anyone else may have said to the contrary. When you have been a victim of cruelty, incest, or any other perversion, you are not the one who needs to repent; you are not responsible.

“You are not less worthy or less valuable or less loved as a human being, or as a daughter or son of God, because of what someone else has done to you.

God does not now see, nor has He ever seen, you as someone to be despised. Whatever has happened to you, He is not ashamed of you or disappointed in you. He loves you in a way you have yet to discover. And you will discover it as you trust in His promises and as you learn to believe Him when He says you are “precious in [His] sight.” (Elder Patrick Kearon: We Can be More than Conquerors. General Conference, April 2022)
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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crazyhamster
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by crazyhamster » Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:40 am

The church just can’t help themselves, can they? Yeesh.

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Not Buying It
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:14 am

Well, you need to understand who the second press release is for. They know they can't convince the world at large, this is just to reassure members. I mean, obviously, their systems are messed up if they knew about the abuse and allowed it to continue, no press release is going to save their bacon on that. And people outside the Church will see through this rather tone deaf response pretty quickly.

This is for the members. The Big 12 know they need reassured, because they are being put in the position of having to defend the indefensible. That is why they included the statement from Mr. Hinckley - most of the world couldn't care less what some guy named Gordon says. But a quote from him carries weight with the members.

Personally, I find it disgusting and flagrantly dishonest. But that is the kind of organization we are dealing with.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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alas
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by alas » Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:42 am

If the mother ever admitted in the bishop’s presence that there was abuse going on, then it became a report from the mother, not a confession. At that time the bishop would have been required by law to report. I don’t have proof that the mother did say something or just there the whole time and never even acknowledged abuse, but then just what did they discus trying to end?

I just can’t get passed this idea that even if the church had some right to withhold the report to authorities at first, but by the time they got the mother involved, they no longer have that excuse and they were just enabling the abuse to continue and just as guilty as the mother.

That is even if they had no over riding moral code to protect the children.

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blazerb
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by blazerb » Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:49 am

The church disgusts me. To be clear, I mean the Kirton-McConkie, Q15, multi-hundred billion dollar, lawyer and business-man run organization operating in SLC. These poor girls suffered for no reason. There are probably children right now who could be saved if bishops picked up the phone to report abuse. That's a big part of the tragedy for me. These press releases are doing nothing to rescue those children just like they did nothing to rescue all the children before. They budget their $50 million a year to pay off the lawsuits and think that makes them righteous.

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Just This Guy
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by Just This Guy » Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:50 am

Seams like the whole push of this press release was "we followed the law". It's important to note that it does not say that they did every thing they could do to stop the abuse as soon as possible. At the end of the day, they told the bishop(s) to not report it and the abuse continuted. Had it been reported the abuse would have stopped a long time before it was.

Once again, the church f***ed up.

One question I have is what does the church hope to gain by encouraging leadership to not report abuse? This isn't the first time that they have been in this position. I think the difference here is there is a LOT more outrage over this occurrence. Even if clergy are not mandatory reporters*, why not just tell bishops to report it and protect the victims? They would save a lot of money in the eventual settlements this way.


*This is not even getting into cases where the clergy ARE mandatory reporters and the church tells them not to report anyway.
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Red Ryder
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:37 am

If the church really practiced what it’s implying in the statement then their policy would be focused on mandatory reporting regardless of state laws.

Forgot about the whole repentance process. That’s not even a significant priority when abuse is involved. Report, help the investigation, then permanently excommunicate and never let the person back in the church ever!

Ironically, the church should apply the same level of effort for clarification here to the church’s historical and doctrinal problems rather than hide and obfuscate.

When did facts start to matter to the church?
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

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Red Ryder
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:50 pm

Looks like the judge is limiting the clergy penitence privilege based on the idea that Adams didn’t really follow the repentance protocol and posted his crime videos to the internet.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-limits ... 31558.html
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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2bizE
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by 2bizE » Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:01 pm

What exactly were the egregious errors from the AP article?
So, with the limited confession of only one child being abused, the church was able to excommunicate the offender in 2013?
Something smells as fishy as Oaks.
~2bizE

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2bizE
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by 2bizE » Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:04 pm

I predict a few things:
1) the doctor/bishop will lose his medical license.
2) the doctor/bishop will sue the church and Kirton McKonkie
3) the church will continue to be a legal-based church
4) the church will continue to do little for victims.
4) the church may sue Kirton McKonkie.
~2bizE

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moksha
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by moksha » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:17 pm

This has the Church riled up since it will not lead to their desired victory for Satan:
Judge Laura Cardinal ruled on Aug. 8 that the late Paul Adams waived his right to keep his confessions secret when he posted videos of himself sexually abusing his two daughters on the Internet, boasted of the abuse on social media, and confessed to federal law enforcement agents, who arrested him in 2017 with no help from the church.
https://apnews.com/article/mormon-lawsu ... 484096f7b7

The Church is appealing to the Arizona Supreme Court, where they hope that all their unbridled support for the Republican Party will overturn the willingness to do the right thing and provide justice.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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blazerb
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by blazerb » Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:57 am

moksha wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:17 pm
This has the Church riled up since it will not lead to their desired victory for Satan:
Judge Laura Cardinal ruled on Aug. 8 that the late Paul Adams waived his right to keep his confessions secret when he posted videos of himself sexually abusing his two daughters on the Internet, boasted of the abuse on social media, and confessed to federal law enforcement agents, who arrested him in 2017 with no help from the church.
https://apnews.com/article/mormon-lawsu ... 484096f7b7

The Church is appealing to the Arizona Supreme Court, where they hope that all their unbridled support for the Republican Party will overturn the willingness to do the right thing and provide justice.
Are there any lawyers around who can comment? It seems obvious to me that the priest-penitent privilege belongs to the penitent, not the priest. Is there any basis for saying that the privilege is there to protect the church?

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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by Angel » Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:45 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:50 pm
Looks like the judge is limiting the clergy penitence privilege based on the idea that Adams didn’t really follow the repentance protocol and posted his crime videos to the internet.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-limits ... 31558.html
First step, obfuscation
Cardinal’s order will require church official Richard Fife, a clerk who took notes during the excommunication hearing, to answer questions from the attorneys representing the Adams children. It will also require church officials to turn over records of the disciplinary council meeting.

The church has filed a legal motion asking Cardinal to delay implementing her order until it contests her findings with the Arizona Court of Appeals. Without the delay, church lawyers said, information it considers confidential under the clergy-penitent privilege would be released to attorneys for the Adams children and, potentially, the public.
Case after case after case.

The investigation was based in part on nearly 12,000 pages of sealed documents from an unrelated West Virginia child sex abuse lawsuit against the church, which provided the most detailed and comprehensive look yet at the so-called help line, which has been criticized by Mormon abuse victims and their attorneys for being inadequate to quickly stop abuse and protect victims.
Quick question, how many bishops have actually reported to police?
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When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by annotatedbom » Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:37 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:41 pm
Well you know this story is really hurting them as they've now released another statement going after the AP for their reporting:
...
Absolute BS - just admit you screwed up and make some positive changes you soulless corporate #$%$#%#.
Ugh, they are so disappointing and pathetic.

Cnsl1
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by Cnsl1 » Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:06 pm

Look on childwelfare.gov for a document that delineates in which states clergy are mandated reporters.

It's a little murky but AZ is one of the states where clergy must report child abuse.

Trouble is, LDS clergy are called, not trained. So they rely on hotline.

Physicians definitely must report, so it would seem like bishop Doctor could be in some hot water.

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blazerb
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by blazerb » Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:23 pm

I've been thinking about things I was taught when much younger. Does anyone else remember being told that the confidentiality of the confessional was a sign of the apostasy of the Catholic church? I am pretty sure I was told that in the "true church" police were called when a crime was confessed.

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Hagoth
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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by Hagoth » Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:26 am

Interesting how all of the effort is designed to make the church the only innocent victim when children get sexually abused.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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Re: The Mormon church releases ANOTHER statement going after the AP

Post by moksha » Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:10 am

blazerb wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:57 am
Are there any lawyers around who can comment? It seems obvious to me that the priest-penitent privilege belongs to the penitent, not the priest. Is there any basis for saying that the privilege is there to protect the church?
The Catholic Church has always held that what is said by the penitent to the priest is sacrosanct. It has been part of their rules for quite some time.

This LDS emulation is a johnny-come-lately designed to keep mention of wrongdoing quiet so the Church does not face any lawsuits. They've gone so far now that they are covering up ongoing crimes. We will undoubtedly hear of more such cases in the future since deceit and coverup are now standard operating procedures in the Kirton-McConkie-LDS bishops interaction.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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