Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

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Not Buying It
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Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by Not Buying It » Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:56 am

MSNBC just posted an article indicating that the recent racist incident at the Duke/BYU volleyball game was actually just part of a long line of problematic incidents involving BYU sports, rather than a one-off:

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opi ... g-n1298434

I think it is fair to ask - why didn't BYU do more to stop a heckler shouting the n-word? Why was he allowed to continue? Why is BYU a place where someone can shout the n-word in a crowd of spectators and no one makes a move to challenge him?
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by lostinmiddlemormonism » Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:31 am

I liked the last line of that article...

Isn't it a shame that the 19 year old Duke players were the only adults in the room.

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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by Advocate » Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:47 am

I am more and more embarrassed to be associated with the church and BYU (as an alum) in recent months. It is astounding, but not surprising, that there weren't any officials at BYU willing to stop the game or tell the fan to get out. As much as church members like to sing "do what is right and let the consequence follow", the reality and culture is "do what you're told and don't think for yourself".

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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by Fifi de la Vergne » Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:45 pm

lostinmiddlemormonism wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:31 am
I liked the last line of that article...

Isn't it a shame that the 19 year old Duke players were the only adults in the room.
How about that whole last paragraph?
MSNBC wrote: It appears that BYU has a past with which it refuses to reckon, meaning it has a present that still contains this element of rot. If there was ever a place that needed a reckoning, it is Brigham Young. And if this happens, it will be because a sophomore named Rachel Richardson and her teammates decided to be the only adults in the room.
Joy is the emotional expression of the courageous Yes to one's own true being.

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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by jfro18 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:55 pm

I thought this post from Sistas in Zion was pretty good even though I know people have mixed opinions on that account in general:
A fan walks into a BYU, hosted volleyball tournament, sits in the student section, and each time some of the players serve the ball that fan yells, “Give women the priesthood!” Or “Polygamy should have never happened!” Or, “The priesthood ban was not of God!” Or “LGBTQIA+ people are not honor code violations!” How long does that go on before action is taken by BYU officials?

As the saying goes, historic behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. I personally have seen folks escorted out of the church’s conference center for yelling, “I object.” I also saw a person tackled, pinned down, and then forcibly removed for cheering, “It’s about time!” and similar comments regarding addressing the racial history of the church, prior to the event even starting while folks were still milling around, chatting, and finding seats. I have seen folks escorted off of BYU’s campus for asking students questions about social matters. These experiences lead me to believe that our hypothetical volleyball fan wouldn’t make it very long before being stopped.

So why then did Black Duke Volleyball players have to endure an entire game of racial harassment without anybody taking action? Not BYU, not their own university, not NCAA officials, not other students, not other adults.

No.

Body.

Why can The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it's institutions, and it’s members act so swiftly when they are the target of the comments or the jeers, but not when a child of God is being called a nigger in their house? How does that go on an entire match?

In 2018 our church announced it’s relationship with the NAACP, we’ve got photo ops, church news articles, tours of welfare square, speeches, and monetary donations. What I want to know is, what is the impact? What is our church learning from the NAACP if despite our relationship this is what continues to happen? If it’s not a general leader of the church giving racist firesides, it’s a Black person being released as a temple worker for having locs, if it’s not that it’s racist dogma showing up in brand new church manuals, if it ain’t that it’s students having to create whole TikTok accounts just to mentally and emotionally survive having the audacity to be Black at BYU, and if that ain’t the thing it’s folks getting called a whole nigger in 2022, while everybody else gazes at their shoes and cringes.

Nobody wants to unpack WHY racism keeps showing up in Latter-day spaces despite all that diverse stock photography on our church website, despite giving money to the NAACP to fight racism in the world while we over here with racism in our wards. We can continue to purchase the optics of being good, but it will never buy us the impact of becoming better. It’s like we don’t want the work we just want the glory, but that’s not how true change is brought to pass. We cannot spend more time and money as a church trying to not be CALLED racist than we do becoming ANTIRACIST. The opposite of racist isn’t “not racist”, the opposite of racist is “antiracist.” So, we don’t have to be a racist church to be inviting to racists or foster racism, we do that if we refuse to be an antiracist church. Which is work, acknowledgment, action, repentance, and restoration. Listen, if we don’t start “rooting out racism” like the prophet called us to do then the racism in our roots will continue to be our reality.

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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by Linked » Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:44 pm

In the discussion of this whole event I've been wondering what I would do as a fellow fan in that situation. Clearly allowing it to continue isn't right, but how exactly should I try to resolve it?

Gordon Monson wrote a piece on this is the Salt Lake Tribune which had some good advice. First, tell the person to knock it off. Second, get security.

Make sure they know that it's not okay in no uncertain terms and get the people to get them out of there. Don't fight them. Don't argue with them. Don't try to throw them out yourself.

Although I think getting punched in the face over it will teach the lesson pretty well. I hear that's how it's learned in the South.
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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by Not Buying It » Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:47 am

jfro18 wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:55 pm
I thought this post from Sistas in Zion was pretty good even though I know people have mixed opinions on that account in general:

In 2018 our church announced it’s relationship with the NAACP, we’ve got photo ops, church news articles, tours of welfare square, speeches, and monetary donations. What I want to know is, what is the impact? What is our church learning from the NAACP if despite our relationship this is what continues to happen? If it’s not a general leader of the church giving racist firesides, it’s a Black person being released as a temple worker for having locs, if it’s not that it’s racist dogma showing up in brand new church manuals, if it ain’t that it’s students having to create whole TikTok accounts just to mentally and emotionally survive having the audacity to be Black at BYU, and if that ain’t the thing it’s folks getting called a whole nigger in 2022, while everybody else gazes at their shoes and cringes.

Nobody wants to unpack WHY racism keeps showing up in Latter-day spaces despite all that diverse stock photography on our church website, despite giving money to the NAACP to fight racism in the world while we over here with racism in our wards. We can continue to purchase the optics of being good, but it will never buy us the impact of becoming better. It’s like we don’t want the work we just want the glory, but that’s not how true change is brought to pass. We cannot spend more time and money as a church trying to not be CALLED racist than we do becoming ANTIRACIST. The opposite of racist isn’t “not racist”, the opposite of racist is “antiracist.” So, we don’t have to be a racist church to be inviting to racists or foster racism, we do that if we refuse to be an antiracist church. Which is work, acknowledgment, action, repentance, and restoration. Listen, if we don’t start “rooting out racism” like the prophet called us to do then the racism in our roots will continue to be our reality.
Sistas in Zion are right on the money about how the Church attempted to "purchase the optics of being good" with all that NAACP publicity without having to change anything . A lot of us saw that for what it was - all talk (and a generous donation) but no action. And they are also absolutely correct that until the Church is truly an anti-racist organization, racism will flourish on the down low.

I learned horribly racist things growing up in Church. Blacks were born black because of their lack of valiance in the pre-existence. Native Americans have darker skin because their ancestors were wicked. The Church still clings to the racist passages in the BoM. But to fix all that would mean they would have to forcefully and publicly repudiate things taught by past prophets, seers, and revelators, and edit parts of the "most correct book on earth" (although its not like they haven't done it before). They would have to incorporate teachings against white supremacist culture into their talks and lesson manuals, and attempt to educate members about all the factors in society that perpetuate racism. They would have to call some faithful members out in a way that would be uncomfortable for them. You can say "racism is wrong" all the day long, but if the people you are saying it to don't think they are doing racist things, it won't do a lick of good. They would need to make some pretty radical changes. And frankly, that's a bridge too far for them.

There will always be racism in the Church, because the Church will never take the necessary steps to "root it out".
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:02 am

They could start with renaming BYU.
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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by alas » Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:29 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:02 am
They could start with renaming BYU.
That would be a start, but wouldn’t solve the problem. They would have to work much harder than just disowning Randy Botts to get rid of the doctrine about anyone of African descent was less valiant in the pre-existence. They would have to admit they were racist to ever think that and humbly apologize and then teach against it the year they cover D&C/church history. Then they would have to get rid of the denial of racism they taught right along with it. They actively taught that “this isn’t us being racist, this is fact straight from God. We love our black brothers because we are all children of God and we can’t help it that they were t as righteous than us before they were born. That was their choice, so how we treat them is perfectly justified.” This denial of racism set a tone in the church of acting racist but not even recognizing the behavior as such and maintaining that we don’t have a racist bone in our bodies while every muscle in our bodies is racist. Then they were have to do a MAJOR rewrite of the Book of Mormon, starting with Lamanites being cursed, to the inspired Columbus discovering America, all the way through to root out all of the manifest destiny doctrine that we still teach. Because isn’t teaching that White Christians were given this nation by God and that it was our destiny to conquer the native and drive them all the way out of their homeland and teach their remnant Christianity exactly part of the problem? That is what the current White Christian Nationalists teach, along with fascism and that Blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans and nonChristians are not real Americans, so they shouldn’t be voting.

And the church is all about appearances, not substance. So they will continue to allow members to BE racist, while paying lip service to not being racist and donating money to the NAACP.

Now let’s talk about how it was a male fan screaming racial slurs at a woman. Misogyny is part of that whole scene and why nobody did anything while it was happening. Does everyone really think that if it was a female screaming the n word at a black volleyball player, that the whole audience and authorities would have sat around doing nothing? But nobody is talking about the misogyny, just the racism.

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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by stealthbishop » Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:36 am

On Instagram Joanna Brooks makes a strong point regarding the fans around this racist POS not doing nearly enough to check his disgusting behavior. BYU coach did not do enough. Referees and line judges did not do enough. This racist should have been ejected. Stop the game and get that disgusting individual out of the Richards Building. It's not that hard. This was yet another critical failure in a long line of failures on the issue of race which the church has never fully or adequately dealt with. And I must say, this is an actual moral issue in contrast to alleged "moral issues" of masturbation, and normal sexual experimentation. What a mess!
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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by stealthbishop » Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:39 am

alas wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:29 am
Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:02 am
They could start with renaming BYU.
Now let’s talk about how it was a male fan screaming racial slurs at a woman. Misogyny is part of that whole scene and why nobody did anything while it was happening. Does everyone really think that if it was a female screaming the n word at a black volleyball player, that the whole audience and authorities would have sat around doing nothing? But nobody is talking about the misogyny, just the racism.
Excellent and important point. He was a racist misogynist.
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Things on your chest
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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:55 am

stealthbishop wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:39 am
alas wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:29 am
Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:02 am
They could start with renaming BYU.
Now let’s talk about how it was a male fan screaming racial slurs at a woman. Misogyny is part of that whole scene and why nobody did anything while it was happening. Does everyone really think that if it was a female screaming the n word at a black volleyball player, that the whole audience and authorities would have sat around doing nothing? But nobody is talking about the misogyny, just the racism.
Excellent and important point. He was a racist misogynist.
Both the fan and Brigham Young! 😂
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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by stealthbishop » Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:05 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:55 am
stealthbishop wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:39 am
alas wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:29 am

Now let’s talk about how it was a male fan screaming racial slurs at a woman. Misogyny is part of that whole scene and why nobody did anything while it was happening. Does everyone really think that if it was a female screaming the n word at a black volleyball player, that the whole audience and authorities would have sat around doing nothing? But nobody is talking about the misogyny, just the racism.
Excellent and important point. He was a racist misogynist.
Both the fan and Brigham Young! 😂
Yeah, ain't that the truth!
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Put me to the test
Things on your chest
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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by Not Buying It » Wed Aug 31, 2022 11:02 am

alas wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:29 am
Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:02 am
They could start with renaming BYU.
That would be a start, but wouldn’t solve the problem. They would have to work much harder than just disowning Randy Botts to get rid of the doctrine about anyone of African descent was less valiant in the pre-existence.
Yeah, what Randy Bott said was inexcusable, but I was pissed at the way the Church threw him under the bus like they weren't the ones who gave him the racist ideas in the first place.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by stuck » Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:35 pm

Not to turn things political, but it would be interesting to see if that racist is a Trump supporter. I think a lot of Mormons are Trump supporters probably because many are Republicans. But doesn't Trump have a history of being racist? And the Mormon church definitely has a history of being racist and as has been said above hasn't done enough to correct that (i.e. Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, manuals, etc.).

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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by lostinmiddlemormonism » Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:37 pm

We don't need no stinkin' diversity, equity, or inclusion training....

https://www.axios.com/local/salt-lake-c ... all-racism

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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:36 pm

Investigation concludes man who was banned did not yell racial slurs.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-banned-b ... 14984.html


A man who was banned during a volleyball game between Brigham Young University and Duke University last week for allegedly yelling the N-word at a player does not appear to have actually said a slur after all, BYU campus police said Tuesday.

BYU Police Lt. George Besendorfer said that an initial review of surveillance footage revealed that the man who was banned was not shouting anything at the time he was alleged to have yelled a slur at Duke sophomore Rachel Richardson, who is the only black starter on the team, while she was serving.

When we watched the video, we did not observe that behavior from him,” he said, adding that the incident is still under investigation.

The investigation comes after Richardson said she “very distinctly” heard a “very strong and negative racial slur” during Friday’s game, according to the Salt Lake Tribune.

The report notes that it is possible that a second person who was not banned from the game did shout the slur. However, if this is the case, no such individual has been publicly identified.
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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by jfro18 » Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:07 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:36 pm
Investigation concludes man who was banned did not yell racial slurs.
I saw this earlier and read the article and the article does not say the slurs did not happen but that the person identified doesn't appear to have done it.

So question now is... did this happen and they just IDed the wrong person?

I've seen quite a few believers on social media today using this article to say it was all made up but the article references multiple times that they are still trying to figure out who might've done it.

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Re: Racist Incident at Duke/BYU Volleyball Game

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Sep 01, 2022 5:53 am

jfro18 wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:07 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:36 pm
Investigation concludes man who was banned did not yell racial slurs.
I saw this earlier and read the article and the article does not say the slurs did not happen but that the person identified doesn't appear to have done it.

So question now is... did this happen and they just IDed the wrong person?

I've seen quite a few believers on social media today using this article to say it was all made up but the article references multiple times that they are still trying to figure out who might've done it.
Maybe they got the wrong guy. The problem is a lot of BYU fans are going to try and use this to claim that racial slurs were never shouted. I think we need to believe our Black brothers and sisters when they tell us about things like this, more often than not they get disbelieved, minimalized, and marginalized because white people don't want to have to think there's still racism we need to deal with. Is it possible she made up the story? Well, yeah, I wasn't there, but I know there is a strong bias toward white people not believing and ignoring reports of racial discrimination, and they are especially prone to it at the Lord's University, which is always right in the minds of some people.

Take a look at the comments in the Deseret News article (https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2022/8/ ... a-new-view) - commenters are all over denying the young black woman's experience. "The only thing worse than being a racist is being a person who accuses others of racism without any proof." (Gag - yeah, being accused of being a racist is so much worse than being on the receiving end of actual racism. That's clueless white person talk.). Even if she made it up, I'm not comfortable with some of the things being said there.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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