Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

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stealthbishop
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Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by stealthbishop » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:05 am

I'm listening to the Mormons on Mushrooms podcast today and LHP is on as a guest discussing Mormon identity and intergenerational trauma.

With both my wife and myself stepping away from church I am seeing more and more how this trauma has perpetuated through the generations and was woven into the beliefs and practices of LDS.

I think our whole family may have religious trauma syndrome to one degree or another. The shame around sexuality has been particularly damaging for me personally and in my marital relationship. So much lost time and years that we will never get back. Normal sexual development was completely messed up. I think only now we are becoming more fully aware of the damage that has been done and taking steps towards healing. I have a therapist that I am working with now.

What about all of you? Do you think you have trauma from Mormonism? How does it manifest for you? How did you or how are you taking steps to heal?
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Red Ryder
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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:36 am

I would suggest we’ve all been traumatized by religion in general and not perhaps just because we were raised Mormon.

How is your therapist helping you? Curious to understand their approach and ways to overcome these thoughts.

I think I need to see a therapist. I still have anger and anxiety issues that arise from my inability to walk my own path. I’m a habitual people pleaser and am afraid to hurt the feelings of family and friends by walking completely away from Mormonism. It’s taken a long time but still feel like I can’t be 100% honest with my feelings towards the church.

I guess that can be defined as trauma to an extent.
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stealthbishop
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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by stealthbishop » Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:00 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:36 am
I would suggest we’ve all been traumatized by religion in general and not perhaps just because we were raised Mormon.

How is your therapist helping you? Curious to understand their approach and ways to overcome these thoughts.

I think I need to see a therapist. I still have anger and anxiety issues that arise from my inability to walk my own path. I’m a habitual people pleaser and am afraid to hurt the feelings of family and friends by walking completely away from Mormonism. It’s taken a long time but still feel like I can’t be 100% honest with my feelings towards the church.

I guess that can be defined as trauma to an extent.
My therapist is using EMDR and we are going through traumatic events and memories, lies I've told myself as a result, and it is helping me to desensitize and reprocess them.

I am very much overly-agreeable myself (some good things with that but has a maladaptive side) and it has manifest maladaptively in people pleasing and not advocating for my wants and needs with my parents and my wife and others. That's definitely something I am working on.
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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by jfro18 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:36 am

I think everyone is to some degree and I've definitely realized it more and more as I've separated from it because it did shape so many aspects of our lives.

The areas that people feel it definitely differ and of course the situation you are in will amplify certain aspects - I say that thinking of being in a mixed faith marriage.

It's a weird thought because believing members often laugh at this idea but it is absolutely true that people who leave experience trauma from so many areas not just of being in the church but leaving it.

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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by stealthbishop » Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:45 am

jfro18 wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:36 am

It's a weird thought because believing members often laugh at this idea but it is absolutely true that people who leave experience trauma from so many areas not just of being in the church but leaving it.
This is so true. Trauma in the church and then the trauma of leaving. So true. We are totally experiencing that.
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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by Linked » Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:53 am

My mission was traumatic. I had nightmares about having to go back for years.

My mom had to have everything be happy and have a silver lining which shaped my entire self and life. That probably has some roots in her mormon upbringing. I realized that I do the same thing to my family now, and am trying to give them more room to be sad.

The idea of a Holy Ghost to tell me what the right choice is screwed me up. Like, I would pray about which can of beans to take off the shelf at the store. I am still quite indecisive.

I think I personally escaped a lot of the sexual trauma somehow. Though I did imagine mutilating myself to solve the "problem" of my sexuality as a teen, so maybe not... But now I feel like I am mostly free from personal judgement regarding sexuality.

A lot of the growth has just been through way too much introspection and reflection. I see a therapist as well.
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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by stealthbishop » Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:14 pm

Linked wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:53 am
My mission was traumatic. I had nightmares about having to go back for years.

My mom had to have everything be happy and have a silver lining which shaped my entire self and life.
I have a lot of trauma from my mission as well. I came home early twice! First time for physical health problems. Once things had stabilized physically more or less with me, I didn't want to go back out and I wanted to go back to college. My mother said if I didn't go back out our family would need to move out of the ward due to the shame of me not completing the mission. My dad started yelling and screaming at me and my mom secluded herself in her room for days. I caved and got reassigned and then, not surprisingly, I began to suffer serious mental health issues (severe anxiety and depression) shortly after and eventually couldn't function and was sent home for good.

As you can imagine, I didn't push missions on my children which caused mild friction in my marriage at the time to a degree. But now my wife is out and it looks like all of our children are out.
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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:00 pm

stealthbishop wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:14 pm
[But now my wife is out and it looks like all of our children are out.
Reading this puts a smile on my face.

I hope therapy brings the healing and personal growth you and your family needs. It’s a shame that getting out even causes heartache and anxiety. That’s when you know you were raised in a system some people equivocate to a cult.
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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by stealthbishop » Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:04 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:00 pm
stealthbishop wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:14 pm
[But now my wife is out and it looks like all of our children are out.
Reading this puts a smile on my face.

I hope therapy brings the healing and personal growth you and your family needs. It’s a shame that getting out even causes heartache and anxiety. That’s when you know you were raised in a system some people equivocate to a cult.
Thanks RR. Much appreciated. I think it will take time for all of us to heal. It's definitely a system that has a high likelihood of harm and damage. More than I imagined.
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Put me to the test
Things on your chest
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glass shelf
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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by glass shelf » Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:18 am

Absolutely, lots of trauma from being raised in a religion with a terribly unhealthy approach to mental health, relationships, boundaries, life expectations/choices, sexuality, autonomy, etc. etc. etc.

I've worked through a lot of it over the last few years, but I know it still negatively impacts me at times. I hope my kids got out early enough to escape a lot of it. I have a son who would be mission-aged if we were still in the church, and I honestly can't imagine how different our lives would be if we'd forced him into that. He's a lovely, introverted human who would likely be tortured by the whole mission experience.

Someone posted this link the other day in another group that I participate in (lots of atheists from various religious/nonreligious upbringings), and I think so much of it resonates across all of us. Talking to other people from different backgrounds has helped me a lot to realize that Mormonism is only part of a much bigger problem in the world.

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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by Hagoth » Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:17 am

stealthbishop wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:14 pm
I have a lot of trauma from my mission as well. I came home early twice! First time for physical health problems. Once things had stabilized physically more or less with me, I didn't want to go back out and I wanted to go back to college. My mother said if I didn't go back out our family would need to move out of the ward due to the shame of me not completing the mission. My dad started yelling and screaming at me and my mom secluded herself in her room for days. I caved and got reassigned and then, not surprisingly, I began to suffer serious mental health issues (severe anxiety and depression) shortly after and eventually couldn't function and was sent home for good.
I would say that is some pretty extreme trauma, stealth.
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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by dogbite » Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:53 am

My mission messed with my head. Even though my sister said on my return it wasn't like I had gone at all. It didn't change me. I certainly didn't and don't value the religious study and practice habits she adopted on her mission. But even then I had nightmares for years about being on a mission or forced into another one. When my faith broke, the dreams changed and became much less frequent.

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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:34 am

Mormonism traumatizes everyone it touches, whether they realize it or not. Even believing members who think the Church makes them happy have to deal with the oppressive demands of a manipulative, dissembling, uptight Church that demands their unquestioning fealty, and even those members must vainly attempt to reconcile the constant disconnect between what the Church teaches and their experience with reality. The Church inculcates so many behaviors and expectations that are simply not normal. Its toxicity infects every family relationship, friendship, and social relationship that it is a part of. When you are living in a Church bubble you don't see it, but step outside of that bubble and it suddenly becomes painfully obvious how many ways the Church traumatizes its members. And even if you are still in the bubble and don't see it, that doesn't mean it isn't having an impact on you.

It's a completely sociopathic organization, in every sense of the word. Yes we were all traumatized by being Mormon, in a hundred different ways.
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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by Linked » Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:48 pm

stealthbishop wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:14 pm
I have a lot of trauma from my mission as well. I came home early twice! First time for physical health problems. Once things had stabilized physically more or less with me, I didn't want to go back out and I wanted to go back to college. My mother said if I didn't go back out our family would need to move out of the ward due to the shame of me not completing the mission. My dad started yelling and screaming at me and my mom secluded herself in her room for days. I caved and got reassigned and then, not surprisingly, I began to suffer serious mental health issues (severe anxiety and depression) shortly after and eventually couldn't function and was sent home for good.

As you can imagine, I didn't push missions on my children which caused mild friction in my marriage at the time to a degree. But now my wife is out and it looks like all of our children are out.
Wow Stealth, that sounds unbearable. Your parents behavior was terrible, I'm sorry you went through that. I can't imagine the mental anguish of getting a taste of home and being forced back out.

Good job stopping the trauma with you. My kids are still pretty young, but when the church recently started pouring on the pressure for missions I made it a point to tell my boys that they get to choose. I told them that people may pressure them with statements like "when you go on a mission" so that they would be able to recognize it and understand it. My DW has been pretty understanding about it.
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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by alas » Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:53 pm

I was in therapy, supposedly for sexual abuse as a child, but me and my LDS FS counselor were spending 90% of our discussion talking about the church. I began to see a pattern over the previous 15 or so years. I would get suicidal and get into counseling and we would work on the issues left from the sexual abuse, such as self blame and low self worth, and my damaged relationship with my mother, and how I defended her because she didn’t know about the abuse. But funny, I knew I couldn’t tell her and didn’t think she could protect me if I did. We worked on trust, and especially trust of men. But it seemed like every subject was complicated by the church. So, we discussed my religion, with one or two non LDS counselor recommending that I discuss certain issues with my clergy. And how I tried to explain to them how untrained and totally worthless Mormon clergy are. So, the further along I got with the healing process, the more the church became part of the problem, from my bishops blaming me as “unforgiving” for having any lasting damage, to my father’s bishops coddling him.

So, I noticed a pattern. I would progress in counseling and at some point get fed up with church and stop going. Depression over and I really am doing great, and so I quit counseling. Then do just fine for 2-3 years until I started missing church and the relationship with God. So, I would make hubby happy and go back. Then after about a year, I am depressed again and headed toward suicidal. So, I would get back into counseling. I start doing better, my self worth is out of the gutter, and about then I would drop out of church. I am really doing well at this point so I stop therapy. So, when I noticed that we were spending about 90% of our therapy time on the church, I looked back at the pattern. I had kind of a bad session with my LDS therapist one time, and I was really frustrated with the church. So, at the conclusion of this kind of bad session, my therapist goes to schedule me for next week, and I told him not to bother. He looked at me with concern, because this had not been a happy session. So, I told him that I didn’t need him if I just stopped going to church. He didn’t like that a bit. And I am sure he put in a call to my bishop, because LDS FS counselors tell your bishop about any problem. Anyway, I quit going to church and was just fine for a few years, until my abuser wanted to be rebaptized. That threw me and I got back into counseling, but I wanted to go back to the guy who knew me and had to talk to my bishop about why. That bishop was one of the good ones and I started back to church, but of course it fell apart because a good bishop doesn’t change the problems the church has. But the day it fell apart was the day I first joined NOM.

So, since if I am active, I have to be in therapy to keep me from being suicidal, yeah, I would say the church is pretty traumatic. It isn’t just a once and done or childhood trauma. It is ongoing, like being in an abusive relationship. It doesn’t stop being traumatic or damaging because you are an adult and no longer doing worthiness interviews where you are shamed for being normal and having sexual feelings. Yes, there are the big things that give you nightmares.

But think about spouse abuse. It is really about control. The gas lighting, the social pressure to conform, the shaming for being normal, the blaming no matter what goes wrong, it can’t be their fault, so it is your fault. All the tactics that abusers use are the same as what the church uses, except for physical violence. Elder’s quorum goals for temple attendance not met? Blame the member, even if temple sessions are boring, 70 miles away and babysitters expensive, it is the member’s fault. They failed. It wasn’t the stupid leaders making unrealistic goals, or the boring temple sessions, or distance or lack of babysitting. Nope, the members failed. Blame induces guilt that is used to control.

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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by crazyhamster » Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:37 pm

Oh my goodness, yes it causes trauma. I think the only way it wouldn't is if you absolutely didn't give a crap about the whole thing at any level, in which case why would one even go? Unless you were forced to or obliged to, and that itself would be traumatic. Not all my experiences there were negative but it's telling that the main things I remember now are almost all troubling and while weren't that many "big" traumatic events, there were enough constant little ones that for many years made Sunday the most depressing day of the week.

Even now, almost 10 years out, I find that my years in the church still affect my self-worth. It was easy to drop the church's tacit encouragement of judging others, but I've found it very much difficult to stop the judgement of self. You know, you're never quite good enough.

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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by stealthbishop » Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:39 am

Thanks for all your supportive comments and sharing your stories. Very helpful and so appreciated.

I'm listening to another episode of Mormons on Mushrooms and the guest is talking about how even the concept in the LDS church of "being unworthy or worthy" is so damaging. Having a leader (always a man) determine your worthiness all the time and having that as normal is so unhealthy.
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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by alas » Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:23 pm

stealthbishop wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:39 am
Thanks for all your supportive comments and sharing your stories. Very helpful and so appreciated.

I'm listening to another episode of Mormons on Mushrooms and the guest is talking about how even the concept in the LDS church of "being unworthy or worthy" is so damaging. Having a leader (always a man) determine your worthiness all the time and having that as normal is so unhealthy.
One of many traumas to me was the whole worthiness being tied to horrible underwear, and a man (bishop) insisting that I wear it, when he didn’t have a clue what I actually needed. As an abuse survivor, I needed ownership and control of my body. Having horrible underwear that was mandated by religion took ownership away from me and gave it to the male run church. And they really couldn’t even comprehend the problem, I couldn’t really verbalize it at first, and yet wearing them made me quickly spiral into depression. I constantly had flashbacks to the abuse, like every time my husband even touched me. So, I was sexually totally dysfunctional. I could explain that much, but bishops just dismissed it as no big deal, but wearing the stupid underwear was absolutely mandatory. They did not even get the concept of flashbacks. They couldn’t understand the absolute terror every time my husband touched me was quickly destroying the marriage. I loved my husband and he loved me, but I just could not stay in a situation that constantly triggered terror. But there was NO acceptable reason to not wear the stupid, ill fitting, hot, infection causing, won’t work with any of the physical functions of the female body, like periods or nursing a baby, or being pregnant, underwear.

Now the church has at least eased up on the rule about putting your normal human underwear under the garments instead of on top. My bra never ever fit over, so, either I got 4 sizes too big and bunched them everywhere, so they fit into the bra cup, or they just flattened my boobs inside the bra. And your monthly period! I knew women who quit wearing them monthly and just didn’t tell, or “cheated” in other ways. So, to not stain the old one piece things, you had to have regular underpants under. Yes, that broke a rule, but the other option meant constant staining, or worse the blood wicking in the garment fabric down onto you other clothing. So, with underpants under, you had to undress completely just to pee. So stupid. So totally unworkable with the female body. They were designed for men, then sorta modified for women and it just didn’t work for any woman, especially one with sexual abuse in her past. The one piece were much better, but by then, I was so traumatized that nothing would have solved the problem. Garments had become the problem, instead of just a trigger to a different problem. Even with the one piece, women still have to wear underpants under them.

I could not wear them, so I was either going crazy trying or “unworthy”. It took me way too long to tell the church it could take a flying leap. But the feeling that there was something terribly wrong with me got stomped into me. And really try talking over your religious underwear with a nonmember therapist. Or even a Mormon one. They just can’t even comprehend how important it is to be allowed to control your own body. Because God would never command the impossible, therefore, I could wear them, I just had to try harder. So, I kept trying and kept crashing and burning. And still got told that I was the unworthy one.

There were so many things that were traumatic about the stupid church.

It reaches the point quickly, that I have to just stop even thinking about it. Church was such a nightmare. From lessons that said “your parents will never do anything to hurt you,” to smashed wedding cakes that proved that it didn’t matter if you wanted to be smashed. You still got smashed and were still ruined for life and nothing could ever fix it, not even Jesus and the atonement. Didn’t matter if you had no idea what sex was when it started. Didn’t matter because God didn’t care about girls at all. God only loved the boys.

Opps, see, I didn’t stop thinking about it. I need to go scrub toilets of something *pleasant* (comparatively) for a bit, or this will turn into the rant of the year.

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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by stealthbishop » Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:10 pm

alas wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:23 pm
stealthbishop wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:39 am
Thanks for all your supportive comments and sharing your stories. Very helpful and so appreciated.

I'm listening to another episode of Mormons on Mushrooms and the guest is talking about how even the concept in the LDS church of "being unworthy or worthy" is so damaging. Having a leader (always a man) determine your worthiness all the time and having that as normal is so unhealthy.
One of many traumas to me was the whole worthiness being tied to horrible underwear, and a man (bishop) insisting that I wear it, when he didn’t have a clue what I actually needed. As an abuse survivor, I needed ownership and control of my body. Having horrible underwear that was mandated by religion took ownership away from me and gave it to the male run church. And they really couldn’t even comprehend the problem, I couldn’t really verbalize it at first, and yet wearing them made me quickly spiral into depression. I constantly had flashbacks to the abuse, like every time my husband even touched me. So, I was sexually totally dysfunctional. I could explain that much, but bishops just dismissed it as no big deal, but wearing the stupid underwear was absolutely mandatory. They did not even get the concept of flashbacks. They couldn’t understand the absolute terror every time my husband touched me was quickly destroying the marriage. I loved my husband and he loved me, but I just could not stay in a situation that constantly triggered terror. But there was NO acceptable reason to not wear the stupid, ill fitting, hot, infection causing, won’t work with any of the physical functions of the female body, like periods or nursing a baby, or being pregnant, underwear.

Now the church has at least eased up on the rule about putting your normal human underwear under the garments instead of on top. My bra never ever fit over, so, either I got 4 sizes too big and bunched them everywhere, so they fit into the bra cup, or they just flattened my boobs inside the bra. And your monthly period! I knew women who quit wearing them monthly and just didn’t tell, or “cheated” in other ways. So, to not stain the old one piece things, you had to have regular underpants under. Yes, that broke a rule, but the other option meant constant staining, or worse the blood wicking in the garment fabric down onto you other clothing. So, with underpants under, you had to undress completely just to pee. So stupid. So totally unworkable with the female body. They were designed for men, then sorta modified for women and it just didn’t work for any woman, especially one with sexual abuse in her past. The one piece were much better, but by then, I was so traumatized that nothing would have solved the problem. Garments had become the problem, instead of just a trigger to a different problem. Even with the one piece, women still have to wear underpants under them.

I could not wear them, so I was either going crazy trying or “unworthy”. It took me way too long to tell the church it could take a flying leap. But the feeling that there was something terribly wrong with me got stomped into me. And really try talking over your religious underwear with a nonmember therapist. Or even a Mormon one. They just can’t even comprehend how important it is to be allowed to control your own body. Because God would never command the impossible, therefore, I could wear them, I just had to try harder. So, I kept trying and kept crashing and burning. And still got told that I was the unworthy one.

There were so many things that were traumatic about the stupid church.

It reaches the point quickly, that I have to just stop even thinking about it. Church was such a nightmare. From lessons that said “your parents will never do anything to hurt you,” to smashed wedding cakes that proved that it didn’t matter if you wanted to be smashed. You still got smashed and were still ruined for life and nothing could ever fix it, not even Jesus and the atonement. Didn’t matter if you had no idea what sex was when it started. Didn’t matter because God didn’t care about girls at all. God only loved the boys.

Opps, see, I didn’t stop thinking about it. I need to go scrub toilets of something *pleasant* (comparatively) for a bit, or this will turn into the rant of the year.
The toxic purity culture of the church has so many strands. And it probably is my number one issue. You are so right. The church's inability to support and protect victims of abuse and instead provide cover and support for perpetrators instead is absolutely horrific. Garments and how they're approached are just crazy. The control about them is so messed up and intrusive and like you said, made from a man's POV and really medically and practically unworkable for so many women. The cake and rose petal object lessons are absolutely abominations. I really underestimated all this. And now that we have actually left I can see the damage more clearly. I think the purity culture is likely my biggest issue and did the most damage to me, my marriage, and our children. It includes LGBTQIA+ issues too. Just so many LDS people and marriages who never had healthy sexual development and have paid the price for it even many decades later.
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Things on your chest
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alas
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Re: Were we all traumatized by being Mormon?

Post by alas » Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:10 pm

The whole purity thing is really unhealthy. And it doesn’t just hurt young people because it shames sexuality. It is much deeper.

I was thinking that without purity culture, we don’t even need the Savior. The atonement as taught in most of Christianity is all about making us clean from our sins, not learning from our mistakes. My first counselor was an exMormon who had converted as an adult, and he was careful not to destroy my faith in the church, but once he said that with Mormons, it isn’t about repentance, it is about absolution. Repentance requires that you learn and change. Absolution just washes it away as if it never was. He was talking about how the church was coddling my father and not requiring that he prove that he has changed. It was about how my father is so nice to the bishop, but still emotionally abusive to my mom. But absolution is the only “repentance” Mormons know. It is all through Mormonism. It is all about how Christ will pay the price and how He will suffer for us so we don’t have to. It isn’t really about learning, but the atonement is about getting out of punishment, getting out of suffering for our sins. But I know personally, when I repent, that takes the misery of knowing that I screwed up and hurt someone. That is painful, but I really would not want Christ to take that pain away, because the pain comes from knowing I hurt someone. If I don’t feel that, then I don’t learn and I do it again.

Now, if our suffering for sin is more than that then it is God just taking vengeance and I don’t believe God needs his pound of flesh. God does not need to be paid anything for our sins. Only the person we hurt needs it made up to them. So, this idea that there is anything to pay is all purity culture. Sin leaves us stained and we need that stain washed away. That is all purity talk.

What sin really leaves is us in debt to the person we hurt. Now, I know I can’t fix someone’s self worth if I say something that damages it. After I hurt them, if I “show forth an increase” in love or whatever, they are not going to accept it from me, because I am the jerk who hurt them. I lost their trust. It has to be someone else cause they don’t trust me any more. So, I need Christ to do that. Or at least over see that somebody does it. And maybe I can love some one else that got hurt by another person to help Christ out in fixing messes. Somebody showed me love and it helped me heal, so I can pass that along and help others heal. So, Christ can be sort of like a love credit union. I get help from somebody who joined the credit union, and I in return help others. And we do it in Christ’s name, because we humans needed him to love us first.

So, anyway, I throwing out purity culture, I changed my understanding of how the atonement works. It isn’t about getting out of punishment at all. God doesn’t need to punish us. And I am not sure what all that means to Christ being crucified because he didn’t need to suffer or die to help us love each other.

But teaching purity culture makes God a vindictive jerk. It makes just learning from our mistakes not near good enough. And personally, I am sick to death of “not good enough.” It leaves a stain that somebody else has to suffer for, and no thanks, I would rather learn from my mistakes and should be the only one who suffers for what I did. Purity culture and the whole “sin leaves us in debt to God” just doesn’t work for me. God doesn’t need us to pay Him, only the person we hurt.

I am just tired of the view that sin only harms our relationship with God, and ignoring that it harms a human. The whole way Mormon repentance is handled is all about fixing our relationship with the church as it stands in for God. Nobody ever wonders why we jump through hoops to prove to the church that we are now good enough, and not jump through hoops to undo damage to another human. What about the hurt human. Sin does not hurt God’s itty bitty feelings.

I mean consider, two little kids, and Johnny hits Billy. And mom punishes Johnny but doesn’t bother to hug or kiss Billy. Mom never does anything to help Billy, just let’s him cry it out alone. Mom never checks to see how Billy is doing or shows any love to Billy after his brother beats up on him. But Johnny does get spanked. Does Billy feel better? Does the spanking of Johnny help Billy feel better, when nobody shows love to Billy after wards? After 18 years of his brother beating up on him, and never once does anyone see how Billy feels or treat his broken nose, or help him deal with being beat up, does Billy feel like Mom loves him? After years of Johnny never saying so much as sorry, does Billy feel that the punishments have helped? Does Billy hate Johnny, even though Mom has punished Johnny? Billy hates Mom too by now.

If we know this fails with children, why do we think our Heavenly Father does it this way?

Oh, because it is easier to be absolved from sin, than to face the person we harmed. And it works to keep people tied to church. Win for the sinner, win for the church and who cares if we abandon the poor person that was harmed. They are probably poor and female anyway, so they don’t matter.

Anyway, our church is so based in purity that we can’t see that there is more to it than that.

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