Progressive mormonism

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Conman52
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Location: West michigan

Progressive mormonism

Post by Conman52 » Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:46 am

I have decided that because the church is my social net and we have good people in our branch that I would hang around and try and help change the church from within . I guess I am a progressive mormon ! Tithing should go to help support the day to day function of the church and help those in need. If we are going to have temples only one question for a recommend ( Do you believe in Jesus Christ) I don't care if you are gay, lgbtq or whatever else. I don't care if you have tattoos, I don't care if you wear a tie or not to church, I don't care if you are white black or anything in between, conservative, liberal, from another faith or faithless all should be welcomed ! Oh and tithing is what you feel you should give ! Christ taught to love all no matter what ! This is where I am I hope all will follow me !!!
By their fruits ye shall know them

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stealthbishop
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Re: Progressive mormonism

Post by stealthbishop » Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:43 am

I think there are niches within the LDS church where you can be a progressive Mormon. I did it for about 10-11 years or so. I think you can make fleeting changes to the culture of the church on the local/micro level depending on your leadership and where you live. However, I think some places and leaders will make your life a living hell if you try to promote a progressive Mormon spin. It always depends. I think the Faith Matters conferences led by the Givens and Patrick Mason and others help to create space for Progressive LDS people. It is a legitimate pathway for some and not for others. You can find hope, meaning, and purpose there. Some can't at all.

For me when I look back on when I was a progressive active LDS I was "whistling past the graveyard" thinking that my children and family would be okay and I would be able to insulate them from the harms and excesses of the macro church and the more conservative leaders in the Q15 and/or on the local level. I was wrong. I failed to protect myself and our family enough and I and my children and my marriage paid the price. The macro culture and "doctrines" such as the so called "law of chastity" which I now call the purity culture were extremely damaging to all of us unfortunately. I underestimated it.

My hope is you will succeed where I failed. I wish you the best and definitely offer you support in your journey of what is best for you and your family.
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

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Ghost
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Re: Progressive mormonism

Post by Ghost » Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:31 pm

It used to bother me a little when people would say that being an active NOM/progressive type was only a temporary stop on the way out. That might have even motivated me to stay active longer. And while I find it hard to imagine a point at which I don't identify as a "Mormon" in some way, I also find it hard to imagine participating actively again. (I'm one of those who just stayed inactive after the pandemic measures were lifted.)

Then again, I never really thought of myself as "progressive," as I never attempted to change anything, unless you count occasionally bringing up obscure church history when I taught lessons. But I can relate to what you say about a social net. I still keep up with LDS friends and I have no doubt my ward would come to my aid if I needed something (and I hope to continue participating in service projects if nothing else).

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Hagoth
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Re: Progressive mormonism

Post by Hagoth » Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:12 pm

If only there was a way to maintain the fellowship of the ward/branch and sever it from the religion.

I have wondered if I could return and be a progressive Mormon, but once you realize it's all made up, just like every other religion, you really start to notice the degree to which you are constantly confronted with expectations and demands to believe and support things you simply can't. In some ways it can be more overwhelming than being a believing Mormon, which is pretty overwhelming.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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alas
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Re: Progressive mormonism

Post by alas » Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:26 am

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:12 pm
If only there was a way to maintain the fellowship of the ward/branch and sever it from the religion.

I have wondered if I could return and be a progressive Mormon, but once you realize it's all made up, just like every other religion, you really start to notice the degree to which you are constantly confronted with expectations and demands to believe and support things you simply can't. In some ways it can be more overwhelming than being a believing Mormon, which is pretty overwhelming.
I tried being a progressive. When people start to catch on that you are not full in, they don’t know how to deal with you and start avoiding, and pretty soon, you have no friends and have been 10 years with no calling (for women, there are more callings for men so, you might get a do nothing calling). So, you lose the fellowship. They recognize that you are not just like them, and start treating you like you have Covid.

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MoPag
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Re: Progressive mormonism

Post by MoPag » Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:27 pm

alas wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:26 am
Hagoth wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:12 pm
If only there was a way to maintain the fellowship of the ward/branch and sever it from the religion.

I have wondered if I could return and be a progressive Mormon, but once you realize it's all made up, just like every other religion, you really start to notice the degree to which you are constantly confronted with expectations and demands to believe and support things you simply can't. In some ways it can be more overwhelming than being a believing Mormon, which is pretty overwhelming.
I tried being a progressive. When people start to catch on that you are not full in, they don’t know how to deal with you and start avoiding, and pretty soon, you have no friends and have been 10 years with no calling (for women, there are more callings for men so, you might get a do nothing calling). So, you lose the fellowship. They recognize that you are not just like them, and start treating you like you have Covid.
Very true^^ This will eventually happen. But in the meantime, your example will encourage other questioning members. You can also stick up for the marginalized people in your ward. Amplify the voices of the sisters in your ward. Look for members, especially youth that might be on the LGBTQIA+ spectrum. Be an ally. We used to call this fulfilling your NOM calling. :)
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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alas
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Re: Progressive mormonism

Post by alas » Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:58 pm

MoPag wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:27 pm
alas wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:26 am
Hagoth wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:12 pm
If only there was a way to maintain the fellowship of the ward/branch and sever it from the religion.

I have wondered if I could return and be a progressive Mormon, but once you realize it's all made up, just like every other religion, you really start to notice the degree to which you are constantly confronted with expectations and demands to believe and support things you simply can't. In some ways it can be more overwhelming than being a believing Mormon, which is pretty overwhelming.
I tried being a progressive. When people start to catch on that you are not full in, they don’t know how to deal with you and start avoiding, and pretty soon, you have no friends and have been 10 years with no calling (for women, there are more callings for men so, you might get a do nothing calling). So, you lose the fellowship. They recognize that you are not just like them, and start treating you like you have Covid.
Very true^^ This will eventually happen. But in the meantime, your example will encourage other questioning members. You can also stick up for the marginalized people in your ward. Amplify the voices of the sisters in your ward. Look for members, especially youth that might be on the LGBTQIA+ spectrum. Be an ally. We used to call this fulfilling your NOM calling. :)
Very good points. Saying that you will eventually lose the fellowship is not to say that you can’t do a lot of good as a progressive by staying active. You can help other progressives not feel crazy. You can support those on the margins. You can push for change.

Also, if you are an extrovert, you may be outgoing enough to make up for being different. Us introverts have a harder time fitting in, especially when we DON’T fit in.

I am an extreme introvert. Ok, ok, I am a hermit. And so, I kind of write my thoughts as an introvert, and don’t automatically think about how it is for extroverts.

Also, if you are male, the church needs you more, so people try harder to fellowship.

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moksha
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Re: Progressive mormonism

Post by moksha » Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:31 am

alas wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:26 am
When people start to catch on that you are not full in, they don’t know how to deal with you and start avoiding, and pretty soon, you have no friends and have been 10 years with no calling (for women, there are more callings for men so, you might get a do nothing calling). So, you lose the fellowship. They recognize that you are not just like them, and start treating you like you have Covid.
In its most severe form, it becomes quite painful when they make you run the gauntlet of discommendation while members jab you with painsticks and taunt you with shouts of "apostate" and telling you to "go back to where you came from", which may or may not be Salt Lake City.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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stealthbishop
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Re: Progressive mormonism

Post by stealthbishop » Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:51 am

I think a part of the equation is your geography and perhaps the dominant political philosophy and culture of your area. Portland, Seattle, Manhattan, Boston, Hyde Park in Chicago, Sugar House in SLC are all progressive cultures which tend to promote more openness and flexibility and less of a fundamentalist perspective in these wards. If you live in conservative/orthodox geography it is an extremely heavy lift. You might be the only progressive in a ward and that is a lonely and oppressive place to be and is likely not sustainable. Sure you can supplement it with NOM, Faith Matters Conferences etc., but it's going to be much tougher. You'll get a lot of push back for opening your mouth or even if fellow ward members know you are on the progressive end of the spectrum. You will likely get shame signals from the tribe to try to get you in alignment. Basically it depends on if you can find your tribe within the church or not. Some can and some can't. I also think the church sees progressives as more expendable than conservative/orthodox. That could be changing with the progressive neo apologists having conferences like Faith Matters. It seems like the church is leaving them alone (for now) mostly. The exception being that there was some kind of a rupture with Fiona Givens about her views on Heavenly Mother that led to her "leaving" or being forced out of the Maxwell Institute. So it is tenuous.
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

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alas
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Re: Progressive mormonism

Post by alas » Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:07 pm

stealthbishop wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:51 am
I think a part of the equation is your geography and perhaps the dominant political philosophy and culture of your area. Portland, Seattle, Manhattan, Boston, Hyde Park in Chicago, Sugar House in SLC are all progressive cultures which tend to promote more openness and flexibility and less of a fundamentalist perspective in these wards. If you live in conservative/orthodox geography it is an extremely heavy lift. You might be the only progressive in a ward and that is a lonely and oppressive place to be and is likely not sustainable. Sure you can supplement it with NOM, Faith Matters Conferences etc., but it's going to be much tougher. You'll get a lot of push back for opening your mouth or even if fellow ward members know you are on the progressive end of the spectrum. You will likely get shame signals from the tribe to try to get you in alignment. Basically it depends on if you can find your tribe within the church or not. Some can and some can't. I also think the church sees progressives as more expendable than conservative/orthodox. That could be changing with the progressive neo apologists having conferences like Faith Matters. It seems like the church is leaving them alone (for now) mostly. The exception being that there was some kind of a rupture with Fiona Givens about her views on Heavenly Mother that led to her "leaving" or being forced out of the Maxwell Institute. So it is tenuous.
This is true that location matters. For 20 years we lived in wards that were primarily Air Force families. We all experienced living in different areas and being exposed to different ways of thinking, which tends to make people more liberal. The AF is the most liberal, family oriented of the military services. I did just fine as a questioning Mormon, nonliteral BOM believer, Joseph Smith doubting, highly feminist, social liberal, fiscal conservative, bleeding heart social worker, and was never so politically liberal or apostate that I couldn’t make friends or be called to the big callings. I just smiled and kept my big mouth shut. As the penguin in Madagascar said, smile and wave, boys, smile and wave. Except for the short tour at Hill Air Force Base in Utah, I went inactive real fast. Then hubby retired and we moved back to live close to family and he worked at Hill. Then I was the horrible feminist, doubter, libral. And we picked the most liberal area around. I went inactive, tried again, went active, tried again. I want my Air Force peeps. Now I live in southern Utah Trump country, or southern Idaho Trump country.

Does everyone here know that Ammon Bundy ran for governor of Idaho and was really popular in my area. Puke.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Progressive mormonism

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:15 pm

I’ve been fairly active during my faith crisis and only recently stopped attending (like Ghost, I just didn’t go back after covid).

I never considered trying to follow a progressive Mormonism path because if I’m honest with myself, the whole schnitzel just stinks. It’s been beyond boring for years. Very little intellectual stimulation exists at church. The rules were always more important than finding Christ or true passion for living a Christ like life. And garments??

I just don’t think there is much worth keeping other than friendships which were always temporary in Mormonism anyway. Just move and see how long your existing ward friendships last?

I understand that a lot of people like the social aspect and community fellowship. If that’s what you like then stay and keep your mouth shut about your faith transition. Once you open your mouth about questioning and disbelief you’re social aspect is done.

Although there does seem to be an under current of women who have found their voices and are choosing to stay. Which only means the church is in trouble because it’s the women that are the glue that hold the church together. Which in of itself is a paradox since women are treated so poorly in the church. It’s always the mom or wife that gets the kids and husbands to church. At least in my life. 😂
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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