Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
Post Reply
User avatar
Linked
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:04 pm

Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

Post by Linked » Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:33 pm

Please pardon my ramblings...

The way the church is setup, people's friendships are often determined by ward boundaries and callings. One year you are in the YM presidency and meet with Brother X weekly working closely together on something you both think is important; sharing jokes and discussing family. The next year you get released and you rarely interact with Brother X outside of a smile and hello in the hall. Or if your ward boundaries shift you never speak with Brother X again.

Sometimes these impermanent relationships are considered hollow and one of the problems with the church. But these impermanent ward relationships can still fill a significant social need. The relationship is very real while you are in it. It can also be nice to not have another person to add to the Christmas card list while still feeling close. It's like a lot of coworker relationships. I don't think these relationships are necessarily bad.

It can be a shock that none of these relationships survive when going thru a faith transition. It is unfortunate that such a large social connection is owned by the church, and any weaponization of that is dystopian though in many cases I suspect that it is coincidental and not malicious. For some of us who don't go on to another church nothing fills that social hole. Viewing these relationships as coworker relationships may help to better find peace with their impermanence. Perhaps a service group or club of some kind could provide a similar social benefit as church relationships once did.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

Post by moksha » Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:12 pm

Years ago the people living on 90th South in Sandy, Utah did not know their neighbors on the other side of the street. Why? Because the middle of the street was the dividing line between the LDS Stakes.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 7076
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

Post by Hagoth » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:55 am

moksha wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:12 pm
Years ago the people living on 90th South in Sandy, Utah did not know their neighbors on the other side of the street. Why? Because the middle of the street was the dividing line between the LDS Stakes.
Same for Highland Drive. Boyd K. Packer used to live just across Highland from me and we never hung out together.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
Linked
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

Post by Linked » Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:10 am

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:55 am
moksha wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:12 pm
Years ago the people living on 90th South in Sandy, Utah did not know their neighbors on the other side of the street. Why? Because the middle of the street was the dividing line between the LDS Stakes.
Same for Highland Drive. Boyd K. Packer used to live just across Highland from me and we never hung out together.
Hahaha, you missed out on some little factory lectures!

Do people in less mormon-dominated areas form meaningful relationships with their neighbors? I have little interest in relationships with my neighbors, but I may be a hermit.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
RubinHighlander
Posts: 1906
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:20 am
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Re: Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

Post by RubinHighlander » Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:51 am

Linked wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:33 pm
It can be a shock that none of these relationships survive when going thru a faith transition.
There are a few exceptions, but I'd guess very few. DW and I still maintain some connection to a few TBM friends we made in our travels around this stake, having lived in 4 different wards over the years and me 10 years in the stake tech specialist and auditor callings. But those connections are pretty thin from what they were. I think it's primarily those TBMs that are not at the extreme far right. I see the evidence of this in some of their IG posts: quotes from MLK or other efforts to try and show their unconditional love in spite of TSCC's "policies". I can often sense their cogdis over these issues and their efforts to show they are progressive and unbigoted. I've also had some of them show some interest and support for my use of medical MJ and fungus, which I don't throw in their face, but it sometimes shows up in the content on my IG posts. This might be a form of condescenvy or just envy. I hope they can see that DW and our kids are living a happy adulting lifestyle, free from the tyranny of TSCC. Live by example.

So far we have not had any of our TBM family shun us over our exit. We've managed many mixed social events without any offense that we are aware of. Our more brash humor might sometimes ruffles a few feathers, but we try to maintain respectability without too much compromise. At Thanksgiving, DW told everyone that we are not going to pray but that they were welcome to thank whatever gods or higher powers in silence. We also recently got all the pretty liquor bottles out of the closet onto a vintage service cart, now proudly displayed in our small formal front living room. We used to put all that stuff away when DWs TBM mom or brother's family came over, but its not hiding anymore (we do still put away the bongs, pipes and such and we wait to get really lit until after they go home). We don't expect them to put away all their LDS trinkets and art when we go to their house. For our family it seems we have reached some equilibrium of mutual respect and agree to disagree. I hope this is the situation for most mixed faith and non-faith families; love can conquer all (or at least most) if you let it.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

User avatar
Linked
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

Post by Linked » Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:30 pm

RubinHighlander wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:51 am
...condescenvy...

I have never heard this term before and I love it, it's perfect.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
RubinHighlander
Posts: 1906
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:20 am
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Re: Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

Post by RubinHighlander » Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:44 pm

Linked wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:30 pm
RubinHighlander wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:51 am
...condescenvy...

I have never heard this term before and I love it, it's perfect.
I have to give credit to FiveFingerMnemonic for that one. He's not on here much these days. I think it is a perfect word to describe what we NOMies and Xmos experience sometimes with TBMs; when they are condescending/judgmental and simultaneously envious of our new more free lifestyle. It's the mental gymnastics they have to play.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

Post by moksha » Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:55 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:55 am
moksha wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:12 pm
Years ago the people living on 90th South in Sandy, Utah did not know their neighbors on the other side of the street. Why? Because the middle of the street was the dividing line between the LDS Stakes.
Same for Highland Drive. Boyd K. Packer used to live just across Highland from me and we never hung out together.
Just think of those days when Highland Drive and 90th South were rural two-lane roads. Of course, I remember an old guy who told me of a time when 7th East was unpaved and they used to herd sheep on it. I think Highland Dr. was similar.

Russell M. Nelson was a year old when they opened the Coon Chicken Inn on 2950 S. Highland Drive.

Image

This can help explain the apostles' formative influences and why they react so vehemently to the LQBTQ community: They are living out the mores of the Victorian era, the antebellum South, and the days before the Magna Carta.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
deacon blues
Posts: 1934
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:37 am

Re: Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

Post by deacon blues » Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:19 am

I love the picture! :D
I happen to live one block south of 90th South and we forget what things were like in the forties, sixties, and well, even the eighties. Sometimes I consider moving to a small town, but I'm spoiled by having a Walmart and Costco nearby. :(
My wife works in the temple and she often encounters our old friends there, but their visits are short because they must not hold up the building of the kingdom. :roll:
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

User avatar
Ghost
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:40 pm

Re: Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

Post by Ghost » Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:51 pm

I agree with this idea. Not every relationship is or needs to be "permanent" (as if anything is permanent anyway). I've had meaningful interactions with people at church and at work who I'll likely never talk to again.

One interesting thing I've noticed is how modern social media can kind of zombify those relationships. You still have a sort of a connection, but not really.

I find it valuable to be in a situation where I have to deal/work with people who are very different from me and who I might never be friends with on a the basis of mutual interests, etc.

stuck
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:48 pm

Re: Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

Post by stuck » Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:53 pm

moksha wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:55 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:55 am
moksha wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:12 pm
Years ago the people living on 90th South in Sandy, Utah did not know their neighbors on the other side of the street. Why? Because the middle of the street was the dividing line between the LDS Stakes.
Same for Highland Drive. Boyd K. Packer used to live just across Highland from me and we never hung out together.
Just think of those days when Highland Drive and 90th South were rural two-lane roads. Of course, I remember an old guy who told me of a time when 7th East was unpaved and they used to herd sheep on it. I think Highland Dr. was similar.

Russell M. Nelson was a year old when they opened the Coon Chicken Inn on 2950 S. Highland Drive.

Image

This can help explain the apostles' formative influences and why they react so vehemently to the LQBTQ community: They are living out the mores of the Victorian era, the antebellum South, and the days before the Magna Carta.
My dad and grandpa used to sing "A coon went out a hunting---" Now I sing A preacher went out a hunting---

Link, hey we've got NOM right? I guess I do have a "co-worker" at church that I have become "friends" with. But when my calling ends, the relationship probably will too. I like my co-workers but I don't really hang out with them after work, except once in awhile. I guess it could be fun to join a bowling league or something to have friends outside of church or work. With kids though it's a bit harder to do something like that right?

User avatar
Linked
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

Post by Linked » Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:19 pm

stuck wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:53 pm
Link, hey we've got NOM right? I guess I do have a "co-worker" at church that I have become "friends" with. But when my calling ends, the relationship probably will too. I like my co-workers but I don't really hang out with them after work, except once in awhile. I guess it could be fun to join a bowling league or something to have friends outside of church or work. With kids though it's a bit harder to do something like that right?
Dang right we've got NOM! Thank goodness, and Corsair, for that.

It would be nice to have a replacement set of friends when the church ones disappear. But like you say, it's hard.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
AdmiralHoldo
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:49 am
Location: Lazy Learner Land

Re: Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

Post by AdmiralHoldo » Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:08 pm

I don't think it's a coincidence that my need for church- based socialization went WAY down when I started my actual career (at 39). I have to assume that's why it's so important to them to keep women at home and largely isolated, to create an artificial need that only they can fill.

Dr. Licious
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:57 am

Re: Impermanent Ward Relationships are Still Real

Post by Dr. Licious » Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:42 am

I have been a member my entire life, although now quite nuanced, like most people on this forum. I've also been serving in the US military my entire adult life, and, in my opinion, these type of relationships exist in all aspects of our childhood and adult friendships. I've had the bestest of friends in the church and in the Navy, but when we part ways, the communication and contact wanes. Thus is life. I don't think this is a unique LDS church created scenario.
Remember, be tough on systems, but easy on people.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 49 guests