Relaxed mission attire

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 4144
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Relaxed mission attire

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:52 pm

My parents are currently serving another mission (state side) and last week they were presented with a revised dress code. They were instructed to wear a new name tag that only included their first and last name and where they are from. They were told they no longer needed to wear a white shirt and tie, that business casual was ok which included dress slacks or khaki pants, a button up shirt, or a polo/golf shirt. Women could continue to wear pants and more relaxed outfits.

I’m not sure if this a mission specific trial of sorts or if this is new across the missionary population.

They were told that the population has become too aware of the missionary uniform which allows people to consciously avoid the missionaries. The new relaxed mission clothing requirements will allow people to have more natural conversations with missionaries.

Seems the white shirts and ties have become a negative brand image.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
wtfluff
Posts: 3630
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by wtfluff » Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:33 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:52 pm
...
They were told that the population has become too aware of the missionary uniform which allows people to consciously avoid the missionaries. The new relaxed mission clothing requirements will allow people to have more natural conversations with missionaries.

Seems the white shirts and ties have become a negative brand image.
:mrgreen:

Dear Zeus, it's sad those few sentences made me giggle.

"Consciously avoid the missionaries." Welcome to reality Dear Missionary Dept. Clone who came up with the "relaxed standards."
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

User avatar
Linked
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by Linked » Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:03 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:52 pm
They were told that the population has become too aware of the missionary uniform which allows people to consciously avoid the missionaries. The new relaxed mission clothing requirements will allow people to have more natural conversations with missionaries.

Seems the white shirts and ties have become a negative brand image.
The clean shaven, white shirt and tie camouflage stopped working. Maybe this time they won't codify it so specifically that it's still the same in 70 years...
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

Cnsl1
Posts: 581
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:27 pm

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by Cnsl1 » Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:18 pm

Now missionaries can sneak up on their prey. Get an appointment before the potential investigators know who they're talking to.

I remember sneaking lessons into conversations in the bus station. If you give more than half the lesson, it counts. I might have set a record for bus station lessons on unsuspecting Asians who had no where to hide. I am now ashamed of my behavior.

User avatar
Phil Lurkerman
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:11 pm

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by Phil Lurkerman » Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:16 pm

A visiting GA told us in a zone conference that they had heard through some surveys and focus groups that the missionary dress code might be causing some people to feel uncomfortable or less interested in talking to the missionaries. He said that they were considering some changes but many of the senior leaders were uncomfortable with this idea.

I’ve been home from my mission for about 33 years. Good to see the lightening speed of revelation.
I was once a cafeteria Mormon on a hunger strike. Have since found a buffet elsewhere.

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by moksha » Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:55 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:52 pm
Seems the white shirts and ties have become a negative brand image.
This means people in Europe will no longer have the visual cue to cross to the other side of the street when they spot missionaries up ahead.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
Angel
Posts: 762
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 8:26 am

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by Angel » Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:17 am

Consider the lilies...

But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts....

I suppose John would feel out of place visiting an lds church.

One of the reasons I never fit in, I don't spend $ on hair and nails.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

User avatar
Hermey
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:32 pm

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by Hermey » Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:38 am

Why does it feel like this is just another episode of "how can we fool them today?" The fact that "...the population has become too aware of the missionary uniform which allows people to consciously avoid the missionaries" speaks volumes. When the general public actively and immediately goes into 'avoidance mode' when they realize they are about to encounter your representatives should tell you something. The only problem is that those who really need to hear and understand it and its implications are the ones who are tone deaf and have an demonstrable inability to read the room.

I remember going into one of the two visitor centers on Temple square for the first time as a TBM (adult) not originally from Utah. If I recall correctly, it was the North building. The main floor contained all of the Jesus stuff and downstairs was Joseph Smith and church history. I remember thinking how hard they were trying to sell the idea that they (the church) were ALL about Jesus and everything else was just a footnote. It kinda bothered me a bit. Even then (as a TBM) it struck me as disingenuous at best and felt downright deceptive at it's core--pretty much like everything else they do too.

Matthew 15:8 comes to mind.... "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me."

Looking back, it makes a lot of sense now. It also brings to mind the lyrics from The Grand Illusion, a song by Styx.

____________

Welcome to the Grand illusion
Come on in and see what's happening
Pay the price, get your tickets for the show
The stage is set, the band starts playing
Suddenly your heart is pounding
Wishing secretly you were a star

But don't be fooled by the radio
The TV or the magazines
They show you photographs of how your life should be
But they're just someone else's fantasy

So if you think your life is complete confusion
Because you never win the game
Just remember that it's a grand illusion
And deep inside we're all the same
We're all the same

So if you think your life is complete confusion
Because your neighbors got it made
Just remember that it's a grand illusion
And deep inside we're all the same

America spells competition, join us in our blind ambition
Get yourself a brand new motor car
Someday soon we'll stop to ponder what on earth's this spell we're under
We made the grade and still we wonder who the hell we are
____________


Such is life. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program.....

User avatar
Just This Guy
Posts: 1514
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: Almost Heaven

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by Just This Guy » Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:01 pm

Phil Lurkerman wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:16 pm
A visiting GA told us in a zone conference that they had heard through some surveys and focus groups that the missionary dress code might be causing some people to feel uncomfortable or less interested in talking to the missionaries. He said that they were considering some changes but many of the senior leaders were uncomfortable with this idea.

I’ve been home from my mission for about 33 years. Good to see the lightening speed of revelation.
Makes you wonder if Red Ryder's parents mission is a test site for the new dress code. See if it helps them there before they roll it out wider.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

User avatar
2bizE
Posts: 2405
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by 2bizE » Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:06 pm

moksha wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:55 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:52 pm
Seems the white shirts and ties have become a negative brand image.
This means people in Europe will no longer have the visual cue to cross to the other side of the street when they spot missionaries up ahead.
I think the European people and all people of the world will quickly adapt to identity other Mormon features so they can continue moving to the other side of the street.
~2bizE

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 7076
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by Hagoth » Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:21 pm

2bizE wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:06 pm
I think the European people and all people of the world will quickly adapt to identity other Mormon features so they can continue moving to the other side of the street.
There's always a givaway. Even if they relaxed the dress code to T-shirts and jeans people would be able to spot Mormons as the people wearing a T-shirt under their T-shirt. That is assuming the glowing countenance didn't already give them away.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Conman52
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:32 pm
Location: West michigan

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by Conman52 » Wed Dec 14, 2022 8:48 am

I'm still a Styx fan !!!!
By their fruits ye shall know them

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 904
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:12 pm

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by nibbler » Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:24 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:52 pm
...
They were told that the population has become too aware of the missionary uniform which allows people to consciously avoid the missionaries. The new relaxed mission clothing requirements will allow people to have more natural conversations with missionaries.

Seems the white shirts and ties have become a negative brand image.
If you can't change the product, change the wrapper it comes in.
Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:52 pm
They were instructed to wear a new name tag that only included their first and last name and where they are from.
They just killed all the small talk I'm capable of doing with missionaries. "So, where are you from... d'oh!"
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

User avatar
alas
Posts: 2357
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by alas » Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:32 am

I am not sure if this is funny or pathetic. Instead of changing the missionaries into people that someone is willing to talk to, without fear of religion being shoved down their throats, they will just make the missionaries harder to recognize. It won’t work.

The JW have had missionaries with no dress uniform, or recognizable age group, but of all ages, sizes, shapes, colors, genders for years and people still figure out quickly who they are and slam the door. The last JW who came to my door were a man who looked Middle Eastern, with three children. At first I thought it must be someone from the neighborhood, but in half a second, I knew they were JWs. We chatted about my humorous “no soliciting” sign as he apologized for even knocking because it also said no religious messengers. We talked for about 20 minutes, because he was just a nice guy. And we actually got talking about his religion because he was friendly and knew how to get chatting, then bring the religion into it in a way I was interested in. It was finding out about me and my interests that allowed the discussion to move to our religious beliefs, and he was respectful of mine and interested in what I thought. He felt genuine instead of laser focused on selling me something I didn’t want. In fact, that isn’t the only time I have talked with JWs. There were two young women once that I had a friendly chat with.

Contrast that to the LDS missionaries who tracked our neighborhood, who totally ignored the sign that says, in a humorous way “we are happy with our Vacuum, with our magazine subscriptions and our religion, so let’s not waste each other’s time.” They were pushy after I just said I wasn’t interested in their message. I didn’t want to talk religion but that was all they were willing to talk about. They obviously didn’t care what I thought, only what they wanted to say. I didn’t have a friendly chat with them for 20 minutes, because they were obnoxious. Only one time have I ever had a friendly chat with Mormon missionaries, because rather than being friendly, they have an agenda and nothing else matters.

First of all, the church training of missionaries needs to include good manners, social skills, and genuine love of others instead of the self centered focus on selling the church to new victims. It needs to focus on service instead of baptism count.

The missionaries need to be worth listening to, instead of self focused little boys.

User avatar
wtfluff
Posts: 3630
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by wtfluff » Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:34 am

alas wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:32 am
...
We chatted about my humorous “no soliciting” sign as he apologized for even knocking because it also said no religious messengers. We talked for about 20 minutes, because he was just a nice guy. And we actually got talking about his religion because he was friendly and knew how to get chatting, then bring the religion into it in a way I was interested in. It was finding out about me and my interests that allowed the discussion to move to our religious beliefs, and he was respectful of mine and interested in what I thought. He felt genuine instead of laser focused on selling me something I didn’t want. In fact, that isn’t the only time I have talked with JWs. There were two young women once that I had a friendly chat with.
...
Some of us old folks who spent a couple of years as indentured sales-people for MORmONism would call this: "Building Relationships of Trust."

[SHUDDER]

:mrgreen:
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

User avatar
alas
Posts: 2357
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by alas » Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:50 am

wtfluff wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:34 am
alas wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:32 am
...
We chatted about my humorous “no soliciting” sign as he apologized for even knocking because it also said no religious messengers. We talked for about 20 minutes, because he was just a nice guy. And we actually got talking about his religion because he was friendly and knew how to get chatting, then bring the religion into it in a way I was interested in. It was finding out about me and my interests that allowed the discussion to move to our religious beliefs, and he was respectful of mine and interested in what I thought. He felt genuine instead of laser focused on selling me something I didn’t want. In fact, that isn’t the only time I have talked with JWs. There were two young women once that I had a friendly chat with.
...
Some of us old folks who spent a couple of years as indentured sales-people for MORmONism would call this: "Building Relationships of Trust."

[SHUDDER]

:mrgreen:
The problem comes when it is a means to an end, instead of just how you treat people. You get them to trust you as a trick to make them listen and join the church. Not because the person is a worthwhile human being. The very way the church teaches missionaries to do this is the problem. Objectify your victim. You need to see them, not as an independent human being, but as a possible baptism. Shudder is correct. Very unhealthy.

User avatar
2bizE
Posts: 2405
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by 2bizE » Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:35 pm

Conman52 wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 8:48 am
I'm still a Styx fan !!!!
As am I
~2bizE

User avatar
Ghost
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:40 pm

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by Ghost » Fri Dec 16, 2022 8:45 am

I've seen some younger missionaries without ties in my area (still white shirts, though). It was a little jarring, but maybe just because I'm an insider and used to the old traditions.

I wonder if this type of change might break the illusion of authority a little. I'm thinking of how I've occasionally seen a photo of an LDS leader in more casual clothes out in public. Why should I trust this random person who looks like anyone else to have eternal truths?

Wonderment
Posts: 450
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:38 pm

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by Wonderment » Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:50 pm

alas wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:32 am
I am not sure if this is funny or pathetic. Instead of changing the missionaries into people that someone is willing to talk to, without fear of religion being shoved down their throats, they will just make the missionaries harder to recognize. It won’t work.

The JW have had missionaries with no dress uniform, or recognizable age group, but of all ages, sizes, shapes, colors, genders for years and people still figure out quickly who they are and slam the door. The last JW who came to my door were a man who looked Middle Eastern, with three children. At first I thought it must be someone from the neighborhood, but in half a second, I knew they were JWs. We chatted about my humorous “no soliciting” sign as he apologized for even knocking because it also said no religious messengers. We talked for about 20 minutes, because he was just a nice guy. And we actually got talking about his religion because he was friendly and knew how to get chatting, then bring the religion into it in a way I was interested in. It was finding out about me and my interests that allowed the discussion to move to our religious beliefs, and he was respectful of mine and interested in what I thought. He felt genuine instead of laser focused on selling me something I didn’t want. In fact, that isn’t the only time I have talked with JWs. There were two young women once that I had a friendly chat with.
So......they knocked on your door despite the sign that said No Soliciting and No Religious Messengers, correct? So, they paid no attention to respecting your wish for privacy or personal space? No respect for others' boundaries, then. Therefore, it doesn't matter what the dress code is. The lack of respect, both from JW and LDS missionaries is the same. No respect for boundaries. :roll:

User avatar
alas
Posts: 2357
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Relaxed mission attire

Post by alas » Sat Dec 17, 2022 8:22 pm

Wonderment wrote:
Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:50 pm
alas wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:32 am
I am not sure if this is funny or pathetic. Instead of changing the missionaries into people that someone is willing to talk to, without fear of religion being shoved down their throats, they will just make the missionaries harder to recognize. It won’t work.

The JW have had missionaries with no dress uniform, or recognizable age group, but of all ages, sizes, shapes, colors, genders for years and people still figure out quickly who they are and slam the door. The last JW who came to my door were a man who looked Middle Eastern, with three children. At first I thought it must be someone from the neighborhood, but in half a second, I knew they were JWs. We chatted about my humorous “no soliciting” sign as he apologized for even knocking because it also said no religious messengers. We talked for about 20 minutes, because he was just a nice guy. And we actually got talking about his religion because he was friendly and knew how to get chatting, then bring the religion into it in a way I was interested in. It was finding out about me and my interests that allowed the discussion to move to our religious beliefs, and he was respectful of mine and interested in what I thought. He felt genuine instead of laser focused on selling me something I didn’t want. In fact, that isn’t the only time I have talked with JWs. There were two young women once that I had a friendly chat with.
So......they knocked on your door despite the sign that said No Soliciting and No Religious Messengers, correct? So, they paid no attention to respecting your wish for privacy or personal space? No respect for others' boundaries, then. Therefore, it doesn't matter what the dress code is. The lack of respect, both from JW and LDS missionaries is the same. No respect for boundaries. :roll:
No, with the JWs, the kids rang the doorbell before the adult got to the porch to even read the sign, and the first thing he said was an apology for ringing the doorbell. You know ten year old kids, they run ahead and ring the doorbell because that is the fun part. I heard the kids at the door, which was why I thought neighbors rather than JWs. I have never seen the JWs out with children in tow. He was ready to turn and walk away after the apology. And what can I say, the sign is more aimed at the Mormon missionaries anyway because I have more bad experience with them. The Mormons were the ones who think that sign doesn’t apply to them and always ignore it. I have seen other times when JWs came to the door, read the sign and leave.

But the Mormons, they are the ones who read it and ring anyway, because they aren’t just any religion, they are special. Normal people have and respect boundaries, but the way the church operates, it teaches disrespect for boundaries. You get called to an appointment with no idea what it is about. You get voluntold about building cleanup. Teens get pulled into an unexpected worthiness interview. Rather than thanking you for donations, tithing settlement is to see if you have paid enough. Boundaries, what boundaries.

This is a major issue I have with the Mormon church. As an abuse survivor, I *need* to have my boundaries respected, but in the Mormon church, there is an enmeshment where boundaries are for the convenience of the leaders and the leaders have no respect for member needs or limits. They are just like abusive parents where it is all about what the parent wants, whether it destroys the child or not. Mormons like to trample boundaries. Request not to be visited, they visit you anyway, and then you get an extra visit to double check that you still don’t want to be contacted. I know because I have been assigned to visit the neighbors who requested to never be contacted.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 50 guests