How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

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2bizE
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How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by 2bizE » Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:50 pm

When I first joined NOM a few years ago, I was much more fluid in my spiritual beliefs. I was still part TBM and trying to find my way forward…
Today, I am still trying to find my way forward. I have a difficult time calling myself an atheist for some reason. I really don’t believe anything in the church as far as gospel truth claims….part of me still considers myself a cafeteria Mormon, though if I were to go to the cafeteria of Mormonism to get lunch, I would probably just end up with a glass of water, or nothing at all.
At the moment, I consider myself to be a “Mormon Agnostic”.
I have a deep Mormon heritage, yet I really don’t believe there is a God, and I believe for certain if there is a God, He/She isn’t Mormon.
How about you?
~2bizE

dogbite
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by dogbite » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:42 pm

I accept none, nontheist, atheist.

stuck
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by stuck » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:54 pm

I would probably label myself the same. Although, I tend to have a greater belief in science than I do in religion. I guess there is still the "unknown". Like are there ghosts? and do miracles happen? There was a missionary who spoke yesterday (homecoming) and he said that he was prompted to quote a scripture to someone and after he did, she started to cry and pulled up her sleeve to reveal that that scripture was on her arm. Can situations like this be explained or is there really some sort of divine influence? It seems that the more you look into it, religion is man-made. RFM said Jesus tried to make others think that Psalms 110 indicated that the messiah did not have to be from David because he probably wasn't. And apparently there were a lot of false messiahs in his time. And if you look at the history of Judaism they believed in more than one god before their exile into Babylon but afterwards they were more monotheistic.

Conman52
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by Conman52 » Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:24 pm

I call myself an Unorthodox mormon to people in the church and regular people I claim to be a Biblical Christian.
By their fruits ye shall know them

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wtfluff
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by wtfluff » Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:45 pm

"Spiritual" beliefs? Y'all know what I'm going to say aboot that: I don't believe in ghosts.

Beyond that I like shocking believers with the term: Apatheism. In not-so-many words: "Don't know, don't care." In a few-mor-words: I don't believe in the existence of any gods, and I don't really care too much if any gods exist because it makes no difference in my interaction with reality whether any gods exist. If there are in fact gods, I see no evidence that they care at all about humanity, so again: It makes no difference if any gods exist.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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LSOF
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by LSOF » Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:50 pm

I am ardently an atheist. I don't believe in any gods, ghosts, or goblins. The Force is a neat story, but it has no actually existent analogue. In sum, I don't believe in anything magic or spiritual. And if the right climate arises, I will rail against them. Otherwise, I don't think about it too much. Having lived completely outside Mormonism for over three years now, and having been PIMO for four years before that, I hardly ever think about it, even living in Salt Lake.
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

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Hagoth
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by Hagoth » Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:07 pm

LSOF wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:50 pm
...I don't believe in any gods, ghosts, or goblins... I don't believe in anything magic or spiritual...
I don't believe in gods or ghosts either, but goblins? How can you not believe in goblins?

I also don't believe in magic or spirits, but I keep getting in trouble for talking about "spirituality," especially with wtfluff. I think spirituality is real, but not because there are spirits. Because we have a powerful sense of wonder that makes us suspect there is more to reality than what we perceive with our senses, so we invent ghosts, gods, and prophesy to try to explain it. I also think consciousness is a real quality of the universe. When flowers follow the sun, when DNA is replicated, when a brainless amoeba seeks and finds food, when crystals grow... I consider all of that consciousness of some form. When I add all of that together it's something mindboggling enough for me to respect in a way that other people might respect a God-on-a-throne. Enough to call myself a pantheist, I suppose.

I heard someone call himself a "hopeful agnostic." I kind of like that. I think we are all agnostics, even TBMs and devout Evangelicals. They say they "know" God exists. They don't. They believe God exists and they interpret that sense of wonder as evidence for the God they believe in, just as the people who invented that God did.

Anyway, labels: Post-Mormon, Pantheist, Pastafarian, Psychonaut, Dude.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Cnsl1
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by Cnsl1 » Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:22 am

I love it, Hagoth.

I suppose I'm a agnostic theist, or agnostic pantheist.

I don't know, but hope for a god.. a good natured one. I hope for a life after life with family and friends and enjoyable things. Since I hope that, I believe that.

Is it true? Nobody knows, of course, but it feels good to believe it. Some things are good to believe, and it doesn't really matter if they're true or not.

I no longer believe in Mormon "truth" claims, but I really like a lot of Mormons, so I'm cool with hanging out with a lot of them.

I have no interest in temples, tithing, or testimonies. I don't really want to hear about what you know, but am more interested in what you wonder about.

If pressed, I'll tell you that I think spirituality is an important factor in the human experience, and that we're all connected by the same stuff.

As far as religion goes.. I keep most of that in my wife's name. Ha.

But she's more about spirituality now too, and it's kinda been enjoyable finding that together.

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Hagoth
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by Hagoth » Tue Dec 20, 2022 6:22 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:22 am

I don't know, but hope for a god.. a good natured one. I hope for a life after life with family and friends and enjoyable things. Since I hope that, I believe that.

Is it true? Nobody knows, of course, but it feels good to believe it. Some things are good to believe, and it doesn't really matter if they're true or not.

I no longer believe in Mormon "truth" claims, but I really like a lot of Mormons, so I'm cool with hanging out with a lot of them.

I have no interest in temples, tithing, or testimonies. I don't really want to hear about what you know, but am more interested in what you wonder about.

If pressed, I'll tell you that I think spirituality is an important factor in the human experience, and that we're all connected by the same stuff.

As far as religion goes.. I keep most of that in my wife's name. Ha.

But she's more about spirituality now too, and it's kinda been enjoyable finding that together.
I really like your perspective, Cnsl1.
Cnsl1 wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:22 am
Is it true? Nobody knows, of course, but it feels good to believe it. Some things are good to believe, and it doesn't really matter if they're true or not.
That's why I like Pastafarians. Unlike most people they actually do have knowledge about their god. They KNOW their god is made up, and is just an excuse for having fun and building community. Is wearing a colander on your head any less valid than a baker's hat?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Angel
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by Angel » Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:02 am

Universal, many paths one destination, many names, all fingers pointing to the moon.

The idea of connection, Conservation of mass, energy, information cannot be destroyed, rational to see everything and everyone being pulled from the same melting pot, then returned to the same mix - together forever - all mixed up, drop of water returning to the ocean and all that.

Universal connection - would that make sense to tell others I believe we're all universally connected?
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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AdmiralHoldo
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by AdmiralHoldo » Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:36 am

I'm a misotheist. (That means that I hate God, not that I worship Japanese soup. Although...) I was enormously relieved to find that there is a word for it, and that it's not even all that uncommon of a belief.

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Linked
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by Linked » Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:22 am

AdmiralHoldo wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:36 am
I'm a misotheist. (That means that I hate God, not that I worship Japanese soup. Although...) I was enormously relieved to find that there is a word for it, and that it's not even all that uncommon of a belief.
I'd never heard of misotheist. Is that theist or atheist or both? Like, from a theist perspective there is an actual god to hate, and from an atheist perspective there is no god but you could hate the things around belief in god. And if you start a miso soup church let me know...


I think that there are no convincing narratives regarding gods, ghosts, or souls. I don't spend any time or energy thinking or worrying about my cosmic scorecard or what I may become when I die. I do spend time and energy on what a moral life is and how to better live one.

I am strongly opposed to religious dogma and the groups whose power is seated in those narratives. History is replete with harm caused by these groups. My life is replete with harm caused by one of these groups. I strive to recognize good done by believing groups and individuals while separating that from their religious claims.

In short, an agnostic atheist. Militant about the agnostic part.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

stuck
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by stuck » Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:35 am

wtfluff wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:45 pm
"Spiritual" beliefs? Y'all know what I'm going to say aboot that: I don't believe in ghosts.

Beyond that I like shocking believers with the term: Apatheism. In not-so-many words: "Don't know, don't care." In a few-mor-words: I don't believe in the existence of any gods, and I don't really care too much if any gods exist because it makes no difference in my interaction with reality whether any gods exist. If there are in fact gods, I see no evidence that they care at all about humanity, so again: It makes no difference if any gods exist.
I hear you wtfluff. I suppose the origin about the belief in ghosts is embedded in our culture and in Mormonism. My dad was a spiritual guy and a visionary person and he claimed that he saw spirits. Then a co-worker of mine said she saw a ghost a couple of times in an old house that she lived in. Then you hear of other things like haunted bedrooms in castles and hotels right? Anyway is this our imagination or is it real? I think in my dad's case he thought he perceived them at times of stress like when he was in the hospital or after surgery. So maybe it's a function of stress in some cases. But in a lot of ways it does seem irrational. Like I have never seen a ghost myself. How about anyone you know? It would be interesting to poll the general population and see how many people believe they have seen ghosts.

I think some "miracles" can be explained but some makes one wonder. How do you explain those that seem too unlikely to have happened?

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Linked
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by Linked » Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:14 pm

stuck wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:35 am
I think some "miracles" can be explained but some makes one wonder. How do you explain those that seem too unlikely to have happened?
For me,

- I've seen enough normal stories turned into miracles/supernatural events after enough time or enough retelling to reject any non-first-hand miracle claims
- If the person telling me about their miracle doesn't seem to have a firm grip on reality then I don't put any stock in it. I will be polite and listen as they are typically being quite vulnerable to share at all, but it doesn't merit a review of my beliefs.
- If the person telling me about their miracle is significantly biased toward their miracle then I take their miracle with a grain of salt.
- If the person telling me about their miracle does seem to have a firm grip on reality then the stories aren't usually all that supernatural. If they are then I may wonder for a bit, but until it happens to me I don't think it merit's a review of my beliefs.

Regarding unlikely coincidences, I just consider them coincidence. Unlikely things happen all the time. 359 undecillion (3.59e-38) atoms of hydrogen fuse every second in the sun through low-probability quantum tunneling.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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wtfluff
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by wtfluff » Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:32 pm

stuck wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:35 am
I hear you wtfluff. I suppose the origin about the belief in ghosts is embedded in our culture and in Mormonism. My dad was a spiritual guy and a visionary person and he claimed that he saw spirits. Then a co-worker of mine said she saw a ghost a couple of times in an old house that she lived in. Then you hear of other things like haunted bedrooms in castles and hotels right? Anyway is this our imagination or is it real? I think in my dad's case he thought he perceived them at times of stress like when he was in the hospital or after surgery. So maybe it's a function of stress in some cases. But in a lot of ways it does seem irrational. Like I have never seen a ghost myself. How about anyone you know? It would be interesting to poll the general population and see how many people believe they have seen ghosts.
I don't believe I remember anyone in my life who claims to have seen a ghost. Growing up in small-town Utah, we did have a friendly ghost in our neighborhood who would throw rocks at us while hanging out in the dark. "His" name was Rocky. I'm pretty sure myself and my friends were seeing and hearing things, and tossing "little tiny rocks" at each other. It was fun running around the neighborhood in the dark searching for Rocky though.

I do know someone who claims to have been visited by their children before the children were born. I think the visitations happened in dreams. At this point in time I am unable to "dig into" those experiences with this person as that questioning would be seen as a threat. Are dreams real? We better not get started on that tangent...

stuck wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:35 am
I think some "miracles" can be explained but some makes one wonder. How do you explain those that seem too unlikely to have happened?
Synchronicity
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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alas
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by alas » Tue Dec 20, 2022 1:25 pm

Linked wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:14 pm
stuck wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:35 am
I think some "miracles" can be explained but some makes one wonder. How do you explain those that seem too unlikely to have happened?
For me,

- I've seen enough normal stories turned into miracles/supernatural events after enough time or enough retelling to reject any non-first-hand miracle claims
- If the person telling me about their miracle doesn't seem to have a firm grip on reality then I don't put any stock in it. I will be polite and listen as they are typically being quite vulnerable to share at all, but it doesn't merit a review of my beliefs.
- If the person telling me about their miracle is significantly biased toward their miracle then I take their miracle with a grain of salt.
- If the person telling me about their miracle does seem to have a firm grip on reality then the stories aren't usually all that supernatural. If they are then I may wonder for a bit, but until it happens to me I don't think it merit's a review of my beliefs.

Regarding unlikely coincidences, I just consider them coincidence. Unlikely things happen all the time. 359 undecillion (3.59e-38) atoms of hydrogen fuse every second in the sun through low-probability quantum tunneling.
I agree with the idea that people exaggerate normal things into most of the stories, but then I have experienced things myself that I can’t explain away as imagination. So, I believe in “there are things that we can’t explain yet with our current understanding of science.” Near death experiences, out of body experiences, some forms of communication between twins ESP kind of things. The skeptics explanations do not fit the evidence.

But, I am still a skeptic, even having experienced things myself. I either accept that I am crazy or believe in something “out there” that can communicate with us.

So, how do I define myself or label myself? I don’t. Because agnostic, pantheist, Christian isn’t a religion. And I would have to toss in mesotheist because I really hate the idea of any of the “gods” that other people worship, so if this whatever I believe does exist, if it is anything like the God of Mormonism, then I hate him. Or the Catholic God, or Moslem God.

But, I think my actual concept of God is a connectedness and common something that is in all humans, animals, rivers, mountains, oceans, that is a living being. So, if I have to pick a religion, maybe mostly I am a pantheist.

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Ghost
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by Ghost » Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:14 pm

The labels I have gravitated toward over the years are ignostic and absurdist. But I never really say these terms aloud because they wouldn't mean anything to most people. I've never referred to myself as atheist or even agnostic, regardless of whether those labels might fit, because of the negative connotations and potential for misunderstanding.

My instinct is also to say that I'm a cultural Mormon, but thinking about it I don't really participate in much of the culture anymore. Mormonism is still a part of my identity one way or another, and I imagine there's a label out there that fits. For years, NOM or heterodox Mormon fit me well, but maybe I've fallen too far for those even at this point.

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Red Ryder
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:50 pm

Reformed Humorist

I used to be judgmental and laugh at people who didn’t believe the way I did.

Now I just laugh at the absurdity of all humans and stupid stuff we choose to believe in.

Live Laugh Love in the name of baby Jesus, baby Buddha, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s amazing meatballs.
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moksha
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by moksha » Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:05 pm

AdmiralHoldo wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:36 am
I'm a misotheist.
With seaweed, green onions, and tofu as subsets of that belief?




I suppose the opposite of Mormonism would be Benevolent Universalism. I could find happiness in a God of goodness that embraced everyone, especially if no one stepped forward to financially profit off of this belief or seek to have its adherents worship them.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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glass shelf
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Re: How do you label yourself regarding your belief?

Post by glass shelf » Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:54 am

I'd say i'm both an atheist and a humanist. People before fairy tales--especially the kind that incite people to hate other people because they don't all fit in the same small boxes.

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