Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

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Red Ryder
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Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Apr 04, 2023 12:26 pm

Temple building

Does anyone know who is building all of these new temples? I’m assuming the church temple department internally employs the architecture, planning, and construction management part of the business. I’m assuming they hire general contractors and subcontractors to do the work. Who owns these companies? Are they relatives of the general authorities? Are the general authorities investors in these companies?

Temple locations

As Temples are getting announced in new areas, it appears that they are going to undercut a significant portion of their neighboring temple’s membership base and attendance will go down. See DC and newly announced temple in northern VA for example. Tuba City California is another example. Are the new locations just to prop up appearances of growth? Or both growth and investment dollars funneled to investors mentioned above?

Temple as symbolic vs literal?

The new changes appear to highlight the emphasis on symbolism. Makes sense to me due to the problematic reasons that stem from a literal meaning.

Perhaps the temples getting overbuilt is really just a mortal problem. That the real intent is to build now so that there are enough temples to accommodate all the work to be done in the millennium?

If that were the case, and coupled with the push for symbolic worship experiences, then why can’t the church just build (or buy) a Metaverse platform that brings the temple experience to the individual without the need for a multi-million dollar building? They’re becoming difficult to staff and have to be costly to maintain?

I think that trying to apply the idea that you could symbolically bring the temple ordinances to the masses through virtual reality or even one final proxy ordinance that applies to everyone, all at once, is really a good idea.

Unless of course it’s all about the money. Then you need to build them for the benefit of the contractor’s ownership and investment group. I’m leaning towards the idea they are arms length transactions with the GA’s.

Perhaps the Widow’s Might crew could start an investigation to determine the economics of temple building. If you follow the money, the new temple announcements will make a lot more sense.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

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AllieOop
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by AllieOop » Tue Apr 04, 2023 12:52 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 12:26 pm
Temple building
All great questions, RR!!

But....the real question is WILL they even be built?

In the 5 years that Nelson has been the president. there have been 133 temples announced.
And, there have been only 3 dedicated.
"There came a time when the desire to know the truth about the church became stronger than the desire to know the church was true."

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deacon blues
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by deacon blues » Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:06 pm

AllieOop wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 12:52 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 12:26 pm
Temple building
All great questions, RR!!

But....the real question is WILL they even be built?

In the 5 years that Nelson has been the president. there have been 133 temples announced.
And, there have been only 3 dedicated.
Surely at least some of the G-15 have noticed this. And I think some members must have as well. It's just silly. :roll: :shock:
I googled: 'The next LDS temple to be dedicated" I got this: Here’s what is planned so far: Winnipeg Manitoba Temple dedication, Oct. 31. Pocatello Idaho Temple dedication, Nov. 7. Mesa Arizona Temple rededication, Dec. 12. Washington D.C. Temple rededication, June 19.
www.deseret.com/2021/10/14/22714924/chu ... edications.
That's 2 new temples in the next year. And the SLC renovation is lagging. :(
It seems like Pres. Nelson setting some future president to be a messenger of disappointment. :oops:
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:35 pm

I see you all read the exmo Reddit forum. 😂

It’s important to note that 56 are under construction and have some progress towards completion.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

dogbite
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by dogbite » Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:45 pm

The members tend to be excited about Temple announcements.

It doesn't matter that they're empty or never get built for now. They can play the 24 hours a day work in the millennium card that justifies their " existence"

It's some one else's problem. They can pass the responsibility on to later prophets for actually doing anything.

So why wouldn't they announce temples willy nilly? It doesn't hurt them in any real way. And it's free to announce vapor temples

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AdmiralHoldo
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by AdmiralHoldo » Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:26 am

I think it's about Nelson symbolically dancing on Hinckley's grave.

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2bizE
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by 2bizE » Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:17 am

AdmiralHoldo wrote:
Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:26 am
I think it's about Nelson symbolically dancing on Hinckley's grave.
This. I think it is a big FU to Hinckley for throwing him under the bus on the name of the church. It was Hinckley who had the vision to create smaller temples and take the temples to the people. RMN wants to snuff out Hinckley’s contributions.
~2bizE

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wtfluff
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by wtfluff » Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:01 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 12:26 pm
...

If that were the case, and coupled with the push for symbolic worship experiences, then why can’t the church just build (or buy) a Metaverse platform that brings the temple experience to the individual without the need for a multi-million dollar building? They’re becoming difficult to staff and have to be costly to maintain?

I think that trying to apply the idea that you could symbolically bring the temple ordinances to the masses through virtual reality or even one final proxy ordinance that applies to everyone, all at once, is really a good idea.

...
Remember when Zoom Church was all the rage during that pandemic thing? Remember how the sacrament prayer didn't work over Zoom and the powers-that-be gave all the deacon-and-higher magicians the ability to bless the sacrament at home?

It seems that Elmohim's Magick Mormon Incantations™ don't work digitally. That limit on those Magick powers makes virtual ordinances impossbile. Physical butts in chairs while chanting and wearing silly costumes is the only way.



Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 12:26 pm
...

Unless of course it’s all about the money...
As for me... The above quoted sentence answers the vast majority of questions I have about LDS-Inc. at the moment.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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Spicy McHaggis
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by Spicy McHaggis » Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:33 pm

Perhaps the temples getting overbuilt is really just a mortal problem. That the real intent is to build now so that there are enough temples to accommodate all the work to be done in the millennium?
I've heard this but I was always under the impression that before the millennium the world was pretty much going to be burned & otherwise destroyed.

Kind of like how some GA said the reason for holding the $125B+ in the stock market was that the money going to be used in the millennium. If society is destroyed, will there be any businesses remaining where their stocks would hold any value?

The church seems to be headed in a direction where leadership really doesn't believe in a literal Armageddon & end of the world.

But, back to the temple question: still no word on the temple in Russia. I'm guessing that is dead in the water.

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nibbler
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by nibbler » Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:59 pm

Stolen from reddit:
Westwood_1 wrote: I agree. Not only is it silly - it's also highly inconsiderate of subsequent leaders, who at some point will need to work through the backlog of announced, but not constructed, temples and perhaps make some tough decisions to cancel or indefinitely postpone temple projects that don't make sense.

It also doesn't seem very compatible with my understanding of revelation and the timing of God. Yes, yes, I know that His ways are not my ways, etc. - but if God wants temples in these locations, what's taking the church so long? And if it's not important that the temples go in yet, why are we making the announcements now?

Put a different way, why does God (or Russell Nelson) have such a low opinion of the revelatory ability of subsequent prophets - why isn't there trust in future leaders to build the temples that will be needed in their times?

This looks a lot more like a heart surgeon with a god complex than a complex work directed by God...
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
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Gatorbait
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by Gatorbait » Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:54 am

As a contractor, earlier in my career, we built four temples, two big ones and two smallish ones. They were handled by the church special projects committee and as far as I know still are.

The temples were really fun and rewarding to build, and even my nonmember father enjoyed seeing them built and had a lot of satisfaction in building them.

Nowadays, they use a lot of church affiliated contractors, but not exclusively. They recruit volunteers to work as church reps on sites.

The past few years the church has phoned me and emailed me and asked me to volunteer as a project manager on one of the new temples being announced, and I think it would be enjoyable to do it. Since I have connections in Africa, they wanted me to go there. Of course I'd have to get a temple recommend and wear- gasp- garments again, which I've not worn for years. They want a three year commitment, which I'm not sure I could do. My NOM adult kids think I should do it, but I'm not sure. Three years is a long time to wear garments and go to church.

I do not believe in temple work, but I know it gives a lot of people happiness, so I'm fine with it. I'm happy with the church building temples as I think it is a good thing, draws people together. Of course it also excludes people, but I think that will change. I think the church will stop demanding 10% to attend and soon. Word of wisdom?... guess folks will just have to keep lying about that one, if they want to go. :D
"Let no man count himself righteous who permits a wrong he could avert". N.N. Riddell

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nibbler
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by nibbler » Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:07 pm

Volunteer as in not paid? For three years? As a project manager? In a foreign country away from home (meaning you can't do it in your spare time whist you go about your normal life)?

I knew the church was cheap but...
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

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Red Ryder
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:19 pm

I got an idea!!

How about Bob the Builder themed special addition garments??

Available in one piece for old times sake. Complete with a tool belt? And built in safety since you know…they’re garments!

I’d wear those everyday as a volunteer construction project manager.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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wtfluff
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by wtfluff » Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:39 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:19 pm
...
How about Bob the Builder themed special addition garments??
...
Red the Ryder 🎵
CAN WE FIX IT???



(I don't even think Bob and all the tool-belts in the world can fix LDS-inc. and it's temples.)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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Hermey
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by Hermey » Sun Apr 09, 2023 7:09 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:39 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:19 pm
...
How about Bob the Builder themed special addition garments??
...
Red the Ryder 🎵
CAN WE FIX IT???



(I don't even think Bob and all the tool-belts in the world can fix LDS-inc. and it's temples.)
:lol: :lol:

Cnsl1
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by Cnsl1 » Sun Apr 09, 2023 7:45 pm

I remember in 2020 when Nelson excitedly announced the Shanghai China temple.

China said something like.. uh, We don't think so. You didn't ask us and we would say no anyway.

See: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2020/04 ... ds-temple/

Temples are easy to announce. It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where a car rental company took Jerry's reservation but didn't have a car for him.. anyone can take a reservation.

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moksha
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by moksha » Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:31 am

The Ulan Bator Temple makes sense. It will make attendance much easier for Mormons in Mongolia, China, and Siberia. Plus it will have attendance from visiting Authorities from Utah, who will be treated to an authentic goat barbecue, throat singing, and have a chance to see a yak up close.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Gatorbait
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by Gatorbait » Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:11 am

Bob the builder garments, now there's an idea, but one piece garmies- I don't think so.
"Let no man count himself righteous who permits a wrong he could avert". N.N. Riddell

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MoPag
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Re: Let’s talk about new temples for a minute

Post by MoPag » Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:18 am

nibbler wrote:
Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:59 pm
Stolen from reddit:
Westwood_1 wrote: I agree. Not only is it silly - it's also highly inconsiderate of subsequent leaders, who at some point will need to work through the backlog of announced, but not constructed, temples and perhaps make some tough decisions to cancel or indefinitely postpone temple projects that don't make sense.

It also doesn't seem very compatible with my understanding of revelation and the timing of God. Yes, yes, I know that His ways are not my ways, etc. - but if God wants temples in these locations, what's taking the church so long? And if it's not important that the temples go in yet, why are we making the announcements now?

Put a different way, why does God (or Russell Nelson) have such a low opinion of the revelatory ability of subsequent prophets - why isn't there trust in future leaders to build the temples that will be needed in their times?

This looks a lot more like a heart surgeon with a god complex than a complex work directed by God...
Interesting insights.
Heart surgeon with a God complex for sure! :lol:
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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