Joseph Smith “sexual predator” label?

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Re: Joseph Smith “sexual predator” label?

Post by PalmSprings » Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:31 pm

moksha wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:03 pm
In the 19th Century, there was a property dispute over lands at Independence, Missouri. During the course of the trial, the LDS Church submitted both affidavits and testimony from the polygamous wives of Joseph, who testified they were wives both in name and deed. So much for Nancy Winchester and Helen Marr Kimball's Jr. High wonder years.

Middle of the Road sounds so political. May I suggest the more apropos Head in the Sand stance?
Conversations like this get heated on both sides so people tend to exaggerate and fail to be unbiased. That is why I chose the words I did. I get you guys are convinced and as I stated before, I respect that point of view. I ask the same respect from you even though you disagree. Thanks!

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Re: Joseph Smith “sexual predator” label?

Post by alas » Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:07 am

PalmSprings wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:59 am
moksha wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2023 3:03 pm
alas wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2023 2:01 pm
If there was one girl, you might be able to say that and not be just defending the indefensible, but there is a clear pattern.
What if apologists were to argue that God wanted Joseph as a prophet because of his uncontrolled lechery?
There is always that percentile that will throw away all critical thinking to support their views. I'm not sure if I can say there is a clear pattern. To be clear I'm not sure I trust the sources on either side of the argument. Those being the Church apologists and the church detractors. The truth is perhaps somewhere in the middle. I know my middle of the road stance is probably unpopular, but if JS was a real predator, the universe tends to take care of people like that.
Maybe him being attacked by a mob was the universe taking care of him.

There seems to be a pattern of mobs attacking him too, although the church claims the mob that tarred and feathered him was all about haters of his religion, the mob started out planning to castrate him for improper behavior with a young woman. I believe she was a Johnson, and he later “married” her.

And the reason I think it is important to recognize a sexual predator as a sexual predator is that so often people refuse to judge because they “don’t want to judge” and that lets tons of sexual predators off the hook. People refuse to “take sides,” which is a message to the victim that they don’t care how badly she was harmed by what happened. As someone who was a victim of a sexual predator, then worked professionally with a few hundred ther victims of sexual predators, I understand how important it is that people learn to tecognize the behaviors of sexual predators. That is the only way we can either protect or help the victims heal, is by taking the victim’s side. So, yeah, when I meet someone who refuses to recognize the behavior when it smacks him in the face, I want to get all preachy at that denier.

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Re: Joseph Smith “sexual predator” label?

Post by AllieOop » Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:49 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:26 pm
So which came first?
The predator or the prey?
Well, Joseph met 27 of his future wives when they were young great question RR.

In George D. Smith's book (Nauvoo Polygamy:....but we called it celestial marriage) he states:
"When the Smiths moved to Ohio in 1831, Joseph there met the majority of his future wives. Most of them were still adolescents - the children of his close associates."
As Joseph was expelled by his neighbors from New York to Ohio, then to Missouri, during the 1830's, the homes of friends or converts along the way offered temporary refuge. This is where Smith became acquainted with the young daughters and women he would marry a decade later. They were the daughters of friends in the families where he stayed. Some of them were very young when he met them and were as young as fourteen when he married them over a decade later."

.....Joseph became acquainted there [Kirtland] with some twenty-seven of the women who would later become his wives."
"Several families in Kirtland offered to house the Smiths in February 1831. This was not pre-arranged but a spontaneous response when people encountered them on their arrival. For instance, when the Smiths visited a country store, its proprietor, Newel K. Whitney, was prompt to suggest temporary lodging at his home. Whitney's daughter Sarah Ann would become one of Joseph Smith's wives, although at the time she was only five years old."
I do believe some of this may be because he went to families he knew for his plural wives, but it still makes one wonder.

"There came a time when the desire to know the truth about the church became stronger than the desire to know the church was true."

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Re: Joseph Smith “sexual predator” label?

Post by Gatorbait » Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:01 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:40 am
Joseph was an opportunistic serial predator. On the ranch my Grandpa used to say once a bear or wolf got a taste of a cow, or more usually a calf, it would focus on the calves, to the exclusion of its usual food/prey.
A side note: C.S. Lewis once said something like God doesn’t reveal himself to us for the same reason that a prince would disguise himself while courting a commoner- to see if she would love him for who he was, and not just his role as “Prince.”
It seems to me that Joseph did exactly the opposite.🥺
Well put and I could not agree more.
"Let no man count himself righteous who permits a wrong he could avert". N.N. Riddell

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