Prophets or place holders? Your opinion please.

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Prophets or place holders? Your opinion please.

Post by Gatorbait » Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:26 pm

Not long ago I was dining with some friends that I've had for more than 50 years, yep, I'm a geezer...The topic of church presidents came up and we each decided on the ones we liked and listed ones that we thought really made a difference for good and were not just "place holders". We limited ourselves to those in our lifetimes only. The three of us, surprisingly had the same list. A short one.

Here's my list:

President Kimball- mostly because of his courage to give the finger to longtime bigots in the church then and before his time and change "officially" the ban on blacks receiving the full "blessings" of the gospel.

President Hinkley- because he started admitting that the church had a lot of dirty laundry but that good could be done and let's getting it behind us. Sort of said the church was sorry about Mountain Meadows and some other dirty deeds. Didn't agree with some of his old fashioned ideas, no beards, no tattoos, too many piercings and the like, but at least he didn't embarrass the church like others have done and would do, and I did think he was interesting to listen to. I also liked his motto: "Things will work out." Used that one from time to time when life seemed difficult.

Thought I'd throw this out and hear your opinions. Your thoughts?
"Let no man count himself righteous who permits a wrong he could avert". N.N. Riddell

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Re: Prophets or place holders? Your opinion please.

Post by wtfluff » Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:43 pm

According to "that one" conference talk: Don't all past prophets become place hoders?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

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Re: Prophets or place holders? Your opinion please.

Post by Culper Jr. » Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:12 pm

Totally agree with your list.

President Kimball: I always hear a lot about the Miracle of Forgiveness and the Indian Placement Program which are incredibly problematic to say the least... -but- he did really move the needle with the church's acceptance of people of color (such as it is). The subject of blacks receiving all ordinances (not just priesthood) had been kicked around for decades, but he got it done. Looking back on some of the other things that he did with our more modern sensibilities can be at the very least cringe inducing, but in reading a lot about him, I think it ultimately came from a place of his love for all people. Maybe he didn't always know the best way to move forward... but he DID things to move forward with race issues instead of kick ideas around like McKay.

President Hinckley: He transformed the church in many ways for better or for worse. Small temples, advances in Family Search, "normalizing" and showcasing the church, promoting a positive media image. As much as Nelson wants to distinguish himself, he is really only adding to what Hinckley started when he's not stepping on rakes by destroying the community in the church and looking like idiots in the media. I really liked Hinckley when I was in and still have positive feelings toward the time he was president. As with any leader's actions, there are negatives, especially viewed with a modern lens, but he always struck me as a person who genuinely cared about the membership.

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Re: Prophets or place holders? Your opinion please.

Post by Hagoth » Wed Apr 26, 2023 8:53 pm

Ezra Taft Benson - the prophet who gave the priesthood to robots (by surrendering his own authority to the autopen).
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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