What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

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Just This Guy
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Re: What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Aug 28, 2023 9:17 am

nibbler wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2023 8:36 am
In one of my last visits I learned it's painful sitting on top of so much MST3K gold and not being able to whisper it to the person sitting next to you.

Okay, when will you take one of NewNameNoah's temple Videos and do a Rifftrax to it? That would be AMAZING!
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wtfluff
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Re: What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

Post by wtfluff » Mon Aug 28, 2023 11:46 am

nibbler wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2023 8:09 am
...
I wonder whether that policy has changed. Can people get their endowment simply because they want to or is it still a process where you can only get the endowment because you're doing something else that requires it (mission/marriage)?
...
At some point that "policy" was changed. I knew someone who got "endowed" just because they "wanted to". No mission or marriage involved. It's been quite some time since that happened.

Is the "policy" still the same? Who knows? If there ever was a "policy" they could change it at will. It could also have something to do with leadership roulette.



nibbler wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2023 8:36 am
...
I was told people learned something new every time they went, so that's what I did. The temple can be a self-fulfilling prophecy that way. If you go in expecting to learn something new it increases your odds of squeezing a little more blood out of the temple turnip. Initially learning something new was measured in small progress with memorizing the veil presentation. Afterwards it became straining at symbolic gnats to create meaning wherever I could find it.
...
Can you elaborate on that last sentence?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you essentially saying you were just "Making sh!t up" ?
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nibbler
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Re: What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

Post by nibbler » Mon Aug 28, 2023 12:41 pm

As a full believer it never felt like I was making things up, it felt like I was discovering the deep hidden meanings buried in things where the meaning was there all along just waiting for me to discover it.

Reflecting back I can say that the ordinances in the temple have little intrinsic meaning. The lion's share of the meaning comes from whatever meaning I and others gave it.

I struggle to remember a specific but the process looked something like:

The cherubim and flaming sword make no sense.
God put that it in the temple ceremony so it must be important.

Then you focus on it for an hour until you come up with something, however strained. If the answer isn't good enough you pat yourself on the back for the progress you were able to make and save the rest to be the mystery you continue to try to solve for the next time you go to the temple.

The more things that don't make sense the more learning fodder there is and in the temple there's lots of it.

It hinges on believing there are mysteries to solve and believing that the whole thing came straight from deity, word for word. The imagination fills in the gaps.

If patrons thought it was just another story they might dismiss a lot of it as being a plot hole and move on without giving it a second thought. It can be the difference between:

They brought back Palpatine? That's so stupid.

vs.
They brought back Palpatine? This means something. This is important.
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Re: What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

Post by wtfluff » Mon Aug 28, 2023 8:24 pm

nibbler wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2023 12:41 pm
...
If patrons thought it was just another story they might dismiss a lot of it as being a plot hole and move on without giving it a second thought. It can be the difference between:

They brought back Palpatine? That's so stupid.

vs.
They brought back Palpatine? This means something. This is important.
[gif removed]
Yeah, I could never get myself to think "This means something. This is important." about anything but the handshakes and passwords that were going to get me into Super VIP Heaven. All of the super-secret hidden meaning stuff just seemed super-stupid in my mind. Darn logic... Always getting in the way.

I heard the useless clichés about learning something new every time, but wasn't ever smart enough to ask anyone "Oh yeah? What did you learn last time?" And I'm pretty sure the answer would have been "It's too sacred to talk about." So they'll take their regular old useless cliché and bump it right up to a thought-terminating cliché. "Please don't ask questions, just shut up."

Perhaps this is why I asked you what you learned nibbler...
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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nibbler
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Re: What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

Post by nibbler » Tue Aug 29, 2023 5:01 am

I wish I could remember a few specifics. It's been about 10 years since I've done an endowment session and the memories fade.

The insights I had were never anything amazing. At first learning something each time meant I got a little farther with memorizing the presentation at the veil. After that it was things like, look how god assigns tasks and there's delegation and an accounting afterwards. I think a lot of them were just things you hear from time to time during church lessons that end up in the back of your mind and they manifest as an insight you had about the temple presentation. You may have heard it 100 times but something about it finally clicks.

There's also the phenomenon where you're watching a movie you've watched 100 times before and you notice something you never noticed during previous viewings. The temple presentation can fall into that category as well. The presentation is monotonous and it's hard to remain focused the entire time. You may be more focused during a section of the presentation where you lost focus (or fell asleep) during a previous session.

I was never one to make the statement about always learning something. I pinged very high on the scrupulosity meter when I was an orthodox believer so for me I'd hear people say that they learned something new in the temple every time they went and I'd wonder what was wrong with me if I didn't experience the same.

I see lots of interwoven things whenever I hear, "I learn something new in the temple every time I go."
  • Some people genuinely feel like they learn something each time. I was in the camp for a while.
  • Some just parrot something they've heard others say. Mormon meetings often feel like they are just about filling the allotted time. Your turn to fill the time? Say things you've heard other people say until the time is up.
  • No one wants to appear weak. Church culture is absolutely obsessed with the "strength" of one's testimony. We openly pity the people that don't have a strong enough testimony. No one wants to be pitied or looked down on so we're in that mode where we constantly feel the need to prove to others how strong our testimony is. Saying you learn something new in the temple can achieve that goal.
  • You can say it to appear strong to others. Probably just an extension to the previous bullet point. There's so much testimony measuring that goes on at church. We may have restored the gospel but we also restored the Pharisees' pissing contests.
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Red Ryder
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Re: What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:46 am

nibbler wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 5:01 am
I see lots of interwoven things whenever I hear, "I learn something new in the temple every time I go."
  • Some people genuinely feel like they learn something each time. I was in the camp for a while.
  • Some just parrot something they've heard others say. Mormon meetings often feel like they are just about filling the allotted time. Your turn to fill the time? Say things you've heard other people say until the time is up.
  • No one wants to appear weak. Church culture is absolutely obsessed with the "strength" of one's testimony. We openly pity the people that don't have a strong enough testimony. No one wants to be pitied or looked down on so we're in that mode where we constantly feel the need to prove to others how strong our testimony is. Saying you learn something new in the temple can achieve that goal.
  • You can say it to appear strong to others. Probably just an extension to the previous bullet point. There's so much testimony measuring that goes on at church. We may have restored the gospel but we also restored the Pharisees' pissing contests.
I think this adequately sums up my experience and thoughts after thoroughly asking myself what I’ve learned while attending the temple.

Looking back at my temple attendance, I’d sort of always let my thoughts wonder in this sort of pattern.
  • The opening space theme and creation element always got my attention. My thoughts focused on how amazing the creation was, how beautiful nature is, and my desire to be outside in gratitude for the beauty of the earth and all gods creature.
  • The next scenes introducing Adam and Eve. Adam has pretty nice hair, he’s cut, not bad. Eve (if blonde)… she’s pretty hot, can we lower the bushes blocking her body?? Eve (if brunette), meh, I wish this was showing the blonde Eve!!
  • The ping pong game: Go down… this always made me chuckle and think God was only good at delegating to Peter James and John. They were solid middle managers.
  • the handshakes and covenants… a bit strange. Annoyed that the logistics of the movie theater seating made it a burden for the old temple workers having to squeeze through each row. Constantly annoyed at the lack of personal space, the smell of bad cologne, body odor, and polyester pulled out of a closed temple bag…. The lack of a reasonable room temperature. The anxiety building up while wondering if I could remember all the words of the narrative at the veil.
  • His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy
    There's vomit on his sweater already, mom's spaghetti

    He's nervous, but on the surface, he looks calm and ready
    To drop bombs, but he keeps on forgetting
    What he wrote down, the whole crowd goes so loud

    He opens his mouth, but the words won't come out
    He's chokin', how? Everybody's jokin' now
    The clock's run out, time's up, over, blaow

    Snap back to reality, ope, there goes gravity
    Ope, there goes Rabbit, he choked, he's so mad
    But he won't give up that easy, no, he won't have it

    He knows his whole back's to these ropes, it don't matter
    He's dope, he knows that, but he's broke, he's so stagnant
    He knows when he goes back to this mobile home, that's when it's

    Back to the lab again, yo, this old rhapsody
    Better go capture this moment and hope it don't pass him
  • what is that?? It’s the second token, or sure sign of the nail. Has it a name. It does… health in the navel, strength in the….. how the hell do you pronounce “in sun yous”????
  • . Were we going to eat after? I hope not that nasty Mexican place everyone loves. Can we try something different. This hat is going to leave a mark on my forehead…. What time is it? The his celestial room is pretty. Look in the eternity mirrors. Oh, there’s sister Johnson bawling her eyes out again. I wonder what’s on her mind that she’s coming to the temple again?? That’s sad….
Then when it’s all over and someone in the family interrupts mid burrito bite, and asks what did you learn in the temple?

It was so peaceful and I love coming to the temple to feel the spirit.
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deacon blues
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Re: What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

Post by deacon blues » Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:46 pm

Satan had the only good lines: “They will be in my power.”🤡
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Re: What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

Post by Hagoth » Tue Sep 12, 2023 7:02 am

deacon blues wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:46 pm
Satan had the only good lines: “They will be in my power.”🤡
He's the really important character. When I went to live sessions in the Salt Lake temple they always made sure Satan was played by someone who could really act. Adam and Eve might be a coulple 80-year olds reciting lines like a grade school play, but Satan always commanded the room. It all falls apart if you stop being afraid of Satan and start thinking about how weak the plot is.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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Cnsl1
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Re: What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

Post by Cnsl1 » Thu Sep 14, 2023 4:00 am

I remember being a bit startled that Satan in the live session wore a black suit. I just wasn't used to anyone wearing anything but white in the temple.

The one live session I attended was pretty fun because it was different. But it was also kinda weird; when you take the same lines and you remove the background music, ambiant garden of eden sounds, costumes, and props, the silliness of the lines becomes much more apparent. The actors seemed desperate to make it meaningful but it felt more like I was watching some poorly acted ward roadshow.

And like most train wrecks, you kinda want to see it again just to be sure you really saw what you saw.

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Hagoth
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Re: What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

Post by Hagoth » Thu Sep 14, 2023 7:37 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2023 4:00 am
I remember being a bit startled that Satan in the live session wore a black suit. I just wasn't used to anyone wearing anything but white in the temple.
His apron was also black. BUT the first time I went to a live session Satan was still wearing the old apron, which was covered with Masonic symbols.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Re: What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

Post by Cnsl1 » Sat Sep 16, 2023 4:00 pm

It's been years since I've done a session.

Still... I think I can remember the first and second tokens of the Aaronic Priesthood, and the first and second tokens of the Melchizedek Priesthood with their accompanying names and signs.

But, was anyone else ever confused about what exactly the "token" was? If they said the token IS the name and sign, well ok that makes a bit of sense. But they want to GIVE you the token and send around the temple worker and they expressly say they want to give you the token WITH the ACCOMPANYING name and sign (they used to add penalty too, and I've probably forgotten which penalty goes with which token). The NAME of the token is given to you, as well as the sign, which seems to be the thing they go around to give you with the secret handshakes. So.. where is the token? And is it just good in the temple or can you also use it at Deseret Books and the Polynesian Cultural Center?

Us endowed schmucks might also remember that the name of the second token of the Melchizedek Priesthood is not given to us until we go to the "veil" and get it straight from God or an old dude standing in for God, and that god used to like giving us the name while embarking on an uncomfortable 5 points of fellowship through the "veil" but now is content just to take it with no touching.

I also remember not being fully sure of all of those details regarding the tokens, which used to make me believe that they were more difficult to understand than they initially seemed, though later realized that it's simply because they don't make a whole hell of a lot of sense in the first place.

It's kinda like listening to a crazy person talk and then try to make deeper sense of their words.

It's something that just takes more time, effort, and faith to understand, Brother. Keep going. Keep studying.

No, it's just a bunch of made-up bullshit. When you consider that it's BS, it actually make a whole lot more sense.

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Hagoth
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Re: What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

Post by Hagoth » Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:27 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2023 4:00 pm
But, was anyone else ever confused about what exactly the "token" was?
In a masonic ritual, a token must be performed by two people. So the sign is the little micro-dance you do with the positions of you arms and hands (bent to the square, cupped...) and the token is the actual handshake.
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moksha
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Re: What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

Post by moksha » Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:39 pm

Sign
Image

Token
Image
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Cnsl1
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Re: What did you learn in the temple today, honey?

Post by Cnsl1 » Wed Sep 20, 2023 1:39 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:27 am
Cnsl1 wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2023 4:00 pm
But, was anyone else ever confused about what exactly the "token" was?
In a masonic ritual, a token must be performed by two people. So the sign is the little micro-dance you do with the positions of you arms and hands (bent to the square, cupped...) and the token is the actual handshake.

Oh yeah! Duh. I forgot that part. I guess I didn't go enough. Ugh

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