One more thread severed: ministering

[sparky]

Recently I was assigned a time for my ministering interview. I have not visited or contacted my assigned friends because I find it awkward and uncomfortable to continue pretending I have any belief in this religion. I looked at the "responsibilities of ministering sisters* and brothers" in Jesus's official handbook (no, not the scriptures, the other handbook):

Ministering sisters and brothers have the following responsibilities for the individuals and families assigned to them:

• Help them strengthen their faith in Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.

I have zero faith or even belief that such beings exist, so I can't in good faith (pun intended) help anyone strengthen theirs.

• Help them prepare to make and keep sacred covenants with God as they receive ordinances. As needed, help parents prepare their children to receive ordinances and keep covenants.

Again I don't believe in the necessity of such ordinances and in fact find the idea of a plan of salvation requiring the same to be totally repugnant and nonsensical. So I would not feel comfortable pressuring people to do them.

• Discern needs and provide Christlike love, caring, and service. Offer help and comfort in times of spiritual or temporal need. Discuss needs during ministering interviews and at other times.

The bolded parts are things I may be able to do in my current state, but at the cost of pretending I'm there for the other responsibilities too. I'm also not comfortable having interviews about other people's needs and personal business. Maybe some people are. Those people might consider a career in social work where they can actually help people.

• Help them become spiritually and temporally self-reliant.

If I were to help them become spiritually self reliant from where I sit (which I doubt I could do as the whole goal of the church is to cement spiritual helplessness), then they might consider leaving as I am in the process of.

In short, I am not up to these responsibilities. Yes I know as NOMs we are free to reinterpret and reinvent things for ourselves, yes I know ministering can (in my experience rarely but YMMV) lead to genuine friendships. I know even NOMs here have had some good experiences with it. But not everything is for everyone, and I have decided ministering is not for me. I'm tired of pretending, I'm tired of being assigned things, I'm tired of coasting my way through check box interviews, trying to find that razor-thin line between raising red flags for believers and torturing myself with self betrayal.

So I finally did what I should have done years ago. I told the EQP I couldn't do it any more for personal reasons. He said okay and he hopes I can work through it, and that's that. I hope.

So at this point the only formal connections I have with the institution are a shared calling with my wife, a +1 on sacrament meeting numbers from attending with her, and a membership record. No more tithing, no garment sales, no temple recommend, no more interviews. Feels better with every step I take away.

*How very progressive of them to say "sisters" first! Three cheers for equality!

[moksha]

I have zero faith or even belief that such beings exist, ...

What about the hope that a beneficent universal superbeing exists? With an emphasis on the beneficent part, that idea really appeals to me. Also, the concept of an afterlife where you can see friends and loved ones again would be great. Unlimited time on the holodeck as they teach in the LDS whole meat doctrines, let your imagination run wild -- like Joseph with his one million brides.

[Jeffret]

The last few years I was involved with the Church, I just declined to have anything to do with Home Teaching. I had already been putting off Home Teachers wanting to visit us, because we were really busy, which we were. I just stopped doing anything more with it. I was annoyed that they just assign something and tell you what they've decided. If they had asked, I might have responded more favorably, but they never did. I just ignored the assignments and the assigned times to have a PPI about it. If told, I would respond that I wouldn't be able to do it. Other than saying I was too busy, I never felt like I needed to give any explanation.

[Jeffret]

I have zero faith or even belief that such beings exist, ...

What about the hope that a beneficent universal superbeing exists? With an emphasis on the beneficent part, that idea really appeals to me. Also, the concept of an afterlife where you can see friends and loved ones again would be great. Unlimited time on the holodeck as they teach in the LDS whole meat doctrines, let your imagination run wild -- like Joseph with his one million brides.

It's definitely a cool fantasy, but I'm not really sure it's a productive one. I don't see that there's a lot of motivation for me to organize my life so as to live for that unevidenced possibility. And if it were real, the Mormon Church, for all of its posturing, is certainly not its gatekeeper. There are many other fantasies that I could order my life around, but I don't choose to adhere to them either, if you grok what I mean.

[nibbler]

[Red Ryder]

Our last EQP realized that most elders never did their assigned ministering or home teaching. So he observed who was naturally friends and assigned people to each other.

As a EQP Secretary it was always annoying to track down numbers for reporting. Once I realized everyone was either lying or not answering the phone, I just looked at the average for the year and maintained that for the reporting. It was much easier than spending numerous hours and reporting 14% and then having the EQP ask me to bump it up anyway.

I think the good old days of President Monson widow visiting and President Hinckley saving wayward fathers through home teaching are over. Thus the reason for the rebrand to Ministering.

Simply a text will suffice to check the box.

Now on a practical level, I know that if I’m ever in a bind I can reach out and ask certain people from the ward for help. But realistically immediate family and friends tops the list before assigned friends from my ward boundaries.

Congrats on your honesty telling them no.

[Mayan_Elephant]

I think the good old days of President Monson widow visiting and President Hinckley saving wayward fathers through home teaching are over. Thus the reason for the rebrand to Ministering.

The days of visiting widows and saving fathers has been replaced with visiting a mall and saving on taxes.

If the church had an actual ministry, they wouldn't have needed to rebrand and offload actual service onto sparky. That said, I have members of my family that take this role very seriously and spend hours helping other people. They do so in the exact scenario described by others here. My family would do it anyways, they were already doing it, the calling was the product of what they were already doing and will continue to do - not the other way around.

[Jeffret]

As a EQP Secretary it was always annoying to track down numbers for reporting. Once I realized everyone was either lying or not answering the phone, I just looked at the average for the year and maintained that for the reporting. It was much easier than spending numerous hours and reporting 14% and then having the EQP ask me to bump it up anyway.

I did something similar ages ago when I was Ward Clerk. The RS would practically be banging down my door to deliver the stats as soon as the month was over and would profusely apologize if a day had elapsed. The Primary would get theirs in after a couple of days. The first month I pestered the EQP until he finally got me the numbers, making my report overdue. After that, I would ask the EQP for numbers each month, he would demur that he would get them to me, he never would, and I was just write down something close to what the first number was, with some made up variation.

The numbers were all made up anyway. Some people would count one thing and others would count something completely different. I was perplexed about how often the Primary reported 100% attendance, when I knew there were some families that were totally inactive. At one point the Primary Secretary explained to me that they only count the people who attend. The mathematician in me started to object, but then I realized it really didn't matter and kept filling in the report with 100% attendance month after month.

[sparky]

At one point the Primary Secretary explained to me that they only count the people who attend. The mathematician in me started to object, but then I realized it really didn't matter and kept filling in the report with 100% attendance month after month.

That is amazing, a true statistical miracle!

[blazerb]

The last time I was contacted for a ministering interview, I just told them that I did not need one. The good brother thanked me for saving him the time.

[Bonfire]

Do you think most people are good or most people are bad?

I read the scriptures alone on Saturdays, mostly the Old Testament because it's starting to make sense now that I am in my thirties. I have a desire to share what I learn or what I have questions about yet there isn't anyone around to talk to. I wish I had a minister.

The church is nice to see everyone: Once we have all rested on Saturday we can help each other out with what we might be missing. I would like to have someone that wants to talk to me because I want to listen. Many members can't be bothered or are going through the motions. They're not listening.

There have been great experiences with home teachers that would pray with me, share a meal, bear their testimonies, or even help around our house.

[Wonderment]

Do you think most people are good or most people are bad?

I read the scriptures alone on Saturdays, mostly the Old Testament because it's starting to make sense now that I am in my thirties. I have a desire to share what I learn or what I have questions about yet there isn't anyone around to talk to. I wish I had a minister.

Bonfire, Have you asked to be assigned a minister, or do you have a friend in the ward with whom you might meet up and do ministering for each other? The reason I ask is that that most wards have active members or missionaries who like to serve by ministering. Or, if you're in a small ward, it would be very possible to reach out to the stake leadership.

I don't think that people who are looking for spiritual edification or support should be left alone or should be made to feel lonely. Part of being active in church membership is the opportunity to make a connection with others on issues of spiritual questions.

Keep in mind that this is a chat board for people who are thinking about becoming inactive, or who are already inactive. So, they are looking for ways to be removed from service assignments. But, there should be a way to reach out and be assigned a Home Teacher ( or minister) for those who are looking for that fellowship.

[sparky]

Do you think most people are good or most people are bad?

I think most people can't be defined by such simple labels. I think most people are a tangled mess of contradictory beliefs and incentives and experiences, and they make decisions in any given situation that are the result of that mess. Sometimes those decisions have positive consequences for themselves and others, sometimes negative. But I do think most people try to do the right thing, and that the right thing isn't always the same for everyone, including which religion one subscribes to.

I read the scriptures alone on Saturdays, mostly the Old Testament because it's starting to make sense now that I am in my thirties. I have a desire to share what I learn or what I have questions about yet there isn't anyone around to talk to. I wish I had a minister

That's great for you, and I hope you can find someone in your ward with whom you can have these conversations. Incidentally this is exactly why I felt I could no longer participate as a minister; I'm also in my thirties but to me the Bible makes less sense than ever, and I'm not interested in ignoring my own views in order to help people make sense of something that has become worse than meaningless to me personally.

[Bonfire]

From what I have read in Exodus, Moses along with the Israelites killed many people to hide their relationship with God. The Egyptians, the lambs, the Israelites, even Joshua, Aaron, Miriam, Caleb, and Moses killed. There were children doing burnings, people spreading sexual diseases, cheaters attracting mates, priesthood seekers, thieves, slave drivers, rapists, soldiers, son killers, daughter impregnators, sister ravishes, bridegroom murderers, even brother slayers. Those were despicable, unkind, savage, wroth times.

Can we do better? I believe so.
Could the deviants be educated. Yes.
See you out there.

[sparky]

Just a small silly update. I informed the EQP of my decision to opt out last week. Yesterday a member of the presidency handed me a printout of my ministering assignment which I think is completely unchanged. It was seconds before sacrament meeting started so he just sort of did a hit-and-run, didn't say a word.

I chalk this up to miscommunication (or just slow communication) in however this presidency runs ministering, I don't think it was personal or specific to me at all. But I am feeling free to ignore the assignment. I've made my request and will act accordingly, how they deal with it (or don't) is not in my lane.