NOM

If we look at the seniority list and relative ages, it’s highly possible that a Uchtdorf Presidency could happen.

If we assume Nelson, Eyring, and Holland all die within 2 years, then it becomes a race between Dallin and Dieter to see who lives the longest. Oaks most likely could be the next prophet purely based on health speculation (supported by pictures of Oaks shopping for shaving cream at Wal-Greens) and Uchdorfs ascension would only become a reality through Oaks death. In the end, I don’t think it matters in relation to any awe inspiring changes to the church, but golly gee I’m praying that will happen before Bednar’s turn.

First Presidency:
1. President Russell M. Nelson (Born September 9, 1924)
2. President Dallin H. Oaks (Born August 12, 1932)
3. President Henry B. Eyring (Born May 31, 1933)

Quorum of the Twelve Apostles:
4. Vacant
5. Jeffrey R. Holland (Born December 3, 1940)
6. Dieter F. Uchtdorf (Born November 6, 1940)
7. David A. Bednar (Born June 15, 1952)
8. Quentin L. Cook (Born September 8, 1940)
9. D. Todd Christofferson (Born January 24, 1945)
10. Neil L. Andersen (Born August 9, 1951)
11. Ronald A. Rasband (Born February 6, 1951)
12. Gary E. Stevenson (Born August 5, 1955)
13. Dale G. Renlund (Born November 13, 1952)
14. Gerrit W. Gong (Born December 23, 1953)
15. Ulisses Soares (Born October 2, 1958)

On the other hand, this might be the last chance for Presidents Nelson and Oaks to institute new changes such as mandatory right-hand usage for the sacrament, members signing a declaration that the leaders are right even when wrong, and alternate waves for the hanky ceremony. You know, things God would want and whispers to these gentlemen in the middle of the night.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:33 pm

If we look at the seniority list and relative ages, it’s highly possible that a Uchtdorf Presidency could happen.

If we assume Nelson, Eyring, and Holland all die within 2 years, then it becomes a race between Dallin and Dieter to see who lives the longest. Oaks most likely could be the next prophet purely based on health speculation (supported by pictures of Oaks shopping for shaving cream at Wal-Greens) and Uchdorfs ascension would only become a reality through Oaks death. In the end, I don’t think it matters in relation to any awe inspiring changes to the church, but golly gee I’m praying that will happen before Bednar’s turn.

First Presidency:
1. President Russell M. Nelson (Born September 9, 1924)
2. President Dallin H. Oaks (Born August 12, 1932)
3. President Henry B. Eyring (Born May 31, 1933)

Quorum of the Twelve Apostles:
4. Vacant
5. Jeffrey R. Holland (Born December 3, 1940)
6. Dieter F. Uchtdorf (Born November 6, 1940)
7. David A. Bednar (Born June 15, 1952)
8. Quentin L. Cook (Born September 8, 1940)
9. D. Todd Christofferson (Born January 24, 1945)
10. Neil L. Andersen (Born August 9, 1951)
11. Ronald A. Rasband (Born February 6, 1951)
12. Gary E. Stevenson (Born August 5, 1955)
13. Dale G. Renlund (Born November 13, 1952)
14. Gerrit W. Gong (Born December 23, 1953)
15. Ulisses Soares (Born October 2, 1958)

This is disturbing.

Here it is in a nice, handy chart: http://www.threestory.com/apostles/

Statistically speaking, Nelson isn't likely to make it more than a couple more years. Oaks seems to be reasonably healthy for a 91 year old, so it's likely he'll ascend to the throne. Finally, he'll be able to make the changes he's long sought after.

Holland is a lot younger, at a mere 82, but he's had substantial health problems. He's reportedly doing a bit better now, but if he outlives Oaks, it may not be for long.

By that time, Eyring may not still be around for his turn. If he does get a turn, it will probably be short and uneventful.

Uchtdorf, at 83, seems relatively healthy, so he may get a shot after Holland is gone.

Then we can expect a lengthy Bednar reign. If those before him live as long as Nelson, it could be another 10 - 15 years before that happens, though.

OfSusan's reign will probably be uneventful from a doctrinal perspective. He'll crack down on appreciating church authority, especially his own. If he comes right after Uchtdorf, there might be some shock as the members go from someone who seems to care to someone who is much more worried about making sure everyone is doing what he says.

Here's another source for expectations of who will become prophet. It was made before Ballard passed, but it is still useful, I think:
https://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2023/1 ... 23-update/

This chart does not try to take health into account. I'm pretty sure that Uchtdorf will live longer that Holland, but surprises happen. Has there ever been a president of the church who was single, according to US law at least? I'll check later if no one knows off the top of their head.

blazerb wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 21, 2023 4:34 pm

OfSusan's reign will probably be uneventful from a doctrinal perspective. He'll crack down on appreciating church authority, especially his own. If he comes right after Uchtdorf, there might be some shock as the members go from someone who seems to care to someone who is much more worried about making sure everyone is doing what he says.

Here's another source for expectations of who will become prophet. It was made before Ballard passed, but it is still useful, I think:
https://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2023/1 ... 23-update/

This chart does not try to take health into account. I'm pretty sure that Uchtdorf will live longer that Holland, but surprises happen. Has there ever been a president of the church who was single, according to US law at least? I'll check later if no one knows off the top of their head.

Has there ever been an apostle that did not marry within the first 9 months of becoming a widower?

Richard G. Scott never remarried. There may be others but that's the off of the top of my head answer.

Mayan_Elephant wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:17 pm

Red Ryder wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:33 pm

If we look at the seniority list and relative ages, it’s highly possible that a Uchtdorf Presidency could happen.

If we assume Nelson, Eyring, and Holland all die within 2 years, then it becomes a race between Dallin and Dieter to see who lives the longest. Oaks most likely could be the next prophet purely based on health speculation (supported by pictures of Oaks shopping for shaving cream at Wal-Greens) and Uchdorfs ascension would only become a reality through Oaks death. In the end, I don’t think it matters in relation to any awe inspiring changes to the church, but golly gee I’m praying that will happen before Bednar’s turn.

First Presidency:
1. President Russell M. Nelson (Born September 9, 1924)
2. President Dallin H. Oaks (Born August 12, 1932)
3. President Henry B. Eyring (Born May 31, 1933)

Quorum of the Twelve Apostles:
4. Vacant
5. Jeffrey R. Holland (Born December 3, 1940)
6. Dieter F. Uchtdorf (Born November 6, 1940)
7. David A. Bednar (Born June 15, 1952)
8. Quentin L. Cook (Born September 8, 1940)
9. D. Todd Christofferson (Born January 24, 1945)
10. Neil L. Andersen (Born August 9, 1951)
11. Ronald A. Rasband (Born February 6, 1951)
12. Gary E. Stevenson (Born August 5, 1955)
13. Dale G. Renlund (Born November 13, 1952)
14. Gerrit W. Gong (Born December 23, 1953)
15. Ulisses Soares (Born October 2, 1958)

This is disturbing.

Why?

Dirty Bird wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:33 am

Mayan_Elephant wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:17 pm

Red Ryder wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:33 pm

If we look at the seniority list and relative ages, it’s highly possible that a Uchtdorf Presidency could happen.

If we assume Nelson, Eyring, and Holland all die within 2 years, then it becomes a race between Dallin and Dieter to see who lives the longest. Oaks most likely could be the next prophet purely based on health speculation (supported by pictures of Oaks shopping for shaving cream at Wal-Greens) and Uchdorfs ascension would only become a reality through Oaks death. In the end, I don’t think it matters in relation to any awe inspiring changes to the church, but golly gee I’m praying that will happen before Bednar’s turn.

First Presidency:
1. President Russell M. Nelson (Born September 9, 1924)
2. President Dallin H. Oaks (Born August 12, 1932)
3. President Henry B. Eyring (Born May 31, 1933)

Quorum of the Twelve Apostles:
4. Vacant
5. Jeffrey R. Holland (Born December 3, 1940)
6. Dieter F. Uchtdorf (Born November 6, 1940)
7. David A. Bednar (Born June 15, 1952)
8. Quentin L. Cook (Born September 8, 1940)
9. D. Todd Christofferson (Born January 24, 1945)
10. Neil L. Andersen (Born August 9, 1951)
11. Ronald A. Rasband (Born February 6, 1951)
12. Gary E. Stevenson (Born August 5, 1955)
13. Dale G. Renlund (Born November 13, 1952)
14. Gerrit W. Gong (Born December 23, 1953)
15. Ulisses Soares (Born October 2, 1958)

This is disturbing.

Why?

Because a bunch of greedy bastards that are that old stink. Have you ever been to a nursing home full of old men? And what kind of business runs on a til death do you govern concept?

moksha wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:30 pm

On the other hand, this might be the last chance for Presidents Nelson and Oaks to institute new changes such as mandatory right-hand usage for the sacrament, members signing a declaration that the leaders are right even when wrong, and alternate waves for the hanky ceremony. You know, things God would want and whispers to these gentlemen in the middle of the night.

I love this. Thanks for the laugh noble one.

Shared this with my wife and we are both filled with hope- Dieter as Pres. Is that a terrible thing? I do like Jeff Holland, even though I don't agree with him a lot. We had a 70 attend our ward yesterday, his daughter is in it, our ward that is, anyway the 70 said Holland is on death's doorstep but wants to dedicate the St. George temple before he dies. Made the assumption that he knows Holland quite well.

Regarding Oaks...maybe someone will push him down the stairs or something. Yikes. Probably burn in hell for that one.

Gatorbait wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:12 pm

Shared this with my wife and we are both filled with hope- Dieter as Pres. Is that a terrible thing? I do like Jeff Holland, even though I don't agree with him a lot. We had a 70 attend our ward yesterday, his daughter is in it, our ward that is, anyway the 70 said Holland is on death's doorstep but wants to dedicate the St. George temple before he dies. Made the assumption that he knows Holland quite well.

Regarding Oaks...maybe someone will push him down the stairs or something. Yikes. Probably burn in hell for that one.

December 10th is the rededication. He might make it until then.

Uchtdorf stands as one of those restore the Church potentialities rather than one who assists it into steady decline.

Gatorbait wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:12 pm

Regarding Oaks...maybe someone will push him down the stairs or something. Yikes. Probably burn in hell for that one.

At least you won't be alone. Give Brother Oaks my regards!

moksha wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:26 am

Uchtdorf stands as one of those restore the Church potentialities rather than one who assists it into steady decline.

Depends on what you mean by "restore". Or what he would restore it to.

I don't think there's much that can be done to halt it's steady decline.

Jeffret wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:03 am

moksha wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:26 am

Uchtdorf stands as one of those restore the Church potentialities rather than one who assists it into steady decline.

Depends on what you mean by "restore". Or what he would restore it to.

I don't think there's much that can be done to halt it's steady decline.

I'm secretly hoping Oaks will make it just long enough to become a senile president who loses enough inhibition to publicly reveal his deepest beliefs from the podium.

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:28 am

Jeffret wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:03 am

moksha wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:26 am

Uchtdorf stands as one of those restore the Church potentialities rather than one who assists it into steady decline.

Depends on what you mean by "restore". Or what he would restore it to.

I don't think there's much that can be done to halt it's steady decline.

I'm secretly hoping Oaks will make it just long enough to become a senile president who loses enough inhibition to publicly reveal his deepest beliefs from the podium.

I agree; let the $hit show begin. I better get my two year supply of popcorn ready.

For decades, or more, members have long dreaded, or anticipated, the ascension of the next president to the grand seat. The reality is that it's rarely made much difference. By the time the individual ascends, he's so feeble or so bound by the tradition of those that came before that they do little.

A lot of people swore they would leave the Church when ETB became president, based upon the radical things he had said for decades. Once he got there, though, little actually changed. His big accomplishment was to push for flooding the world with the BoM, something that seems to have been largely forgotten these days. Most of his time in the chair, he had little capacities.

Hinckley had by far the longest and most impactful reign of anyone in recent times, because he was still relatively young and healthy when he became president. But, his biggest lasting impacts were how many earrings can be worn and a marketing campaign around being Mormons, the latter of which has since been overturned.

Nelson has had a larger impact than many of his predecessors, but the net change is still minimal. His most significant changes were instituted early in his reign, 1) discarding Scouting, which undid the work done by his immediate predecessor, and 2) declaring the term "Mormon" to be derogatory, undoing some decent marketing work by Hinckley.

Past performance is no guarantee of future results. But in this case, the trend has been pretty clear.

Oaks probably isn't really going to have all that much impact once he likely ascends. He'll be a little more homophobic, but he'll be concerned about damaging the Church. He has stopped his radical free speech talks as he's gotten closer to the throne. Maybe he'll declare the term "Mormon" holy again.

Uchtdorf may tone down a little bit of Oaks's authoritarianism, but probably won't really make and notable changes. If Oaks doesn't reverse the "Mormon" thing, Uchtdorf might.

The only one I can see within the next couple of decades that may actually cause significant change is Bednar.

The tradition-bound, geriatric rule of the Church works to keep the Church from significant change. This has increased as the Church has become a real-estate and investment holding company supported by a significant bureaucracy.

Jeffret wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:46 am

...
A lot of people swore they would leave the Church when ETB became president, based upon the radical things he had said for decades. Once he got there, though, little actually changed. His big accomplishment was to push for flooding the world with the BoM, something that seems to have been largely forgotten these days. Most of his time in the chair, he had little capacities.
...

THIS is the hope that I cling to for when Oaks becomes CEO.

Jeffret wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:46 am

A lot of people swore they would leave the Church when ETB became president, based upon the radical things he had said for decades. Once he got there, though, little actually changed. His big accomplishment was to push for flooding the world with the BoM, something that seems to have been largely forgotten these days. Most of his time in the chair, he had little capacities.

I was told that Ezra Taft met with the Brethren and they informed him that they did not want him staining the Church with his John Birch ideas while serving as the President. No idea if that was true, but he did seem to back off his crazy pronouncements while he still had his faculties.

David O. McKay should have read the riot act to Ezra Taft many times over.