NOM

I guess they decided not to wait for conference, eh?

Palerider wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 08, 2023 11:32 am

I guess they decided not to wait for conference, eh?

Owned a PR firm? You can't make this **** up. It writes itself, really. The new apostle owned a PR firm. I am laughing, out loud, for real.

His talk on refugees was actually good. He doesn’t have or use a middle initial, that’s a plus. He’s a Brit. Overall, there could have been many worse picks.

I knew Rusty would wait until conference though…what if died and someone else got the legacy pick…the horror!!!

Called and ordained Dec 7 2023.

But he doesn't get sustained until April 2024.

Putting the cart before the horse eh CEO Rusty?

wtfluff wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 08, 2023 4:14 pm

Called and ordained Dec 7 2023.

But he doesn't get sustained until April 2024.

Putting the cart before the horse eh CEO Rusty?

I think we should give Nelson the benefit of doubt since he didn't hire a real estate developer or partner from KM.

Mayan_Elephant wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 08, 2023 4:16 pm

wtfluff wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 08, 2023 4:14 pm

Called and ordained Dec 7 2023.

But he doesn't get sustained until April 2024.

Putting the cart before the horse eh CEO Rusty?

I think we should give Nelson the benefit of doubt since he didn't hire a real estate developer or partner from KM.

According to Rusty's own Doctrine and Covenants, he isn't supposed to hire anyone until the membership sustain that anyone.

(I know, I know... Common Consent: Not common. Maybe the articles of incorporation state something different about the appointment of new board members?)

wtfluff wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:54 pm

Mayan_Elephant wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 08, 2023 4:16 pm

wtfluff wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 08, 2023 4:14 pm

Called and ordained Dec 7 2023.

But he doesn't get sustained until April 2024.

Putting the cart before the horse eh CEO Rusty?

I think we should give Nelson the benefit of doubt since he didn't hire a real estate developer or partner from KM.

According to Rusty's own Doctrine and Covenants, he isn't supposed to hire anyone until the membership sustain that anyone.

(I know, I know... Common Consent: Not common. Maybe the articles of incorporation state something different about the appointment of new board members?)

I am not 99, but I can promise you this. I swear to god, if I live to be 99 I will drop acid with a couple buddies and Calamity Jane and rob a bank. Today, I am clean and sober and can't drink whiskey or drop acid. And today, I am not prepared for the consequences of robbing a bank. But damn, if I make it to 99, I want "Mother******* Acid-Dropping Bank Robber" on my tombstone. I suspect this ol boy Nelson ain't much worried about no damn covenants at this point.

wtfluff wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 08, 2023 4:14 pm

Called and ordained Dec 7 2023.

But he doesn't get sustained until April 2024.

Putting the cart before the horse eh CEO Rusty?

Considering he didn't wait until conference to put himself in the top seat, even though it is required in the D&C...

Not surprised.

I heard the new dude is more like Uchtdorf than he is like all those Utah/Idaho raised old rich white guys. Dieter probably needed a buddy. He seems left out. Maybe Rusty figured what the hell, they'll all die off before Bednar anyway.

Maybe he thought he followed the spirit.

Maybe he's too old to know or care.

Maybe this dude was the last guy he talked to before Ballard died.

Who knows, who cares. There was a time I could name them all. I probably couldn't pick them out of a police lineup now.

lostinmiddlemormonism wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 08, 2023 12:58 pm

His talk on refugees was actually good. He doesn’t have or use a middle initial, that’s a plus. He’s a Brit. Overall, there could have been many worse picks.

I knew Rusty would wait until conference though…what if died and someone else got the legacy pick…the horror!!!

Love that he doesn't have an initial to deal with. I like that, and I like the guy. Think he'll be a buffer for some of the oldsters. Seems likeable and his talks are given in a kindly tone. Glad to have the bloke.

John Dehlin noted that new apostle Kearon effectively rebuked that crazy Mormon idea that victims are guilty of being victimized. He said that perhaps Kearon can bring some much-needed reform to Mormonism.

moksha wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 13, 2023 12:12 am

John Dehlin noted that new apostle Kearon effectively rebuked that crazy Mormon idea that victims are guilty of being victimized. He said that perhaps Kearon can bring some much-needed reform to Mormonism.

A lot was said about Updorf bring needed reform to the church as well. However, he was as much a pawn as anyone. For a while he was giving talks about being understanding to ex members. But then he gave the infamous "doubt your doubts" talk and most of the hope for him being the voice of change went up in smoke. Favored by GBH, but clashed with and demoted by RMN. End of they day they still have to play nice to the whims of whoever has been there longer than they have.

While reform is needed, it still have to go through the guys at the top and the current ones are as set in their harmful ways as ever. So I won't not get excited to see any change until for a very long time. At least until the current group of bigoted old men kick the bucket.

moksha wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 13, 2023 12:12 am

...
perhaps Kearon can bring some much-needed reform to Mormonism.

I'm going to re-state Just This Guy's statement with my sociall-reject filter:

Reform? Not until all of the old, non-reformers DIE.

wtfluff wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:39 pm

moksha wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 13, 2023 12:12 am

...
perhaps Kearon can bring some much-needed reform to Mormonism.

I'm going to re-state Just This Guy's statement with my sociall-reject filter:

Reform? Not until all of the old, non-reformers DIE.

By the time he gets into the unleashed seat, there will be a whole new crop of a-holes who will obstruct reform as much as they can. Reformers always seem to need to play by the rules. The die-hard reactionaries will have no problem using every dirty trick they can. I'm thinking of all those who tried to end the temple/priesthood ban and were thwarted. It will be hard to make progress.

Also, I'm not convinced that he's a reformer. I hope so.

Just This Guy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:47 am

While reform is needed, it still have to go through the guys at the top and the current ones are as set in their harmful ways as ever. So I won't not get excited to see any change until for a very long time. At least until the current group of bigoted old men kick the bucket.

Just a quick count and I think 11 guys would have to "croak" before significant changes could be made. And some of them are younger than Uchtdorf.

I'm betting it will take something seriously traumatic from the outside to effect significant change in this soft-cult organization. A real paradigm bender is needed.

Otherwise it will continue to be "Mo mo, same same".

Palerider wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:56 pm

Just This Guy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:47 am

While reform is needed, it still have to go through the guys at the top and the current ones are as set in their harmful ways as ever. So I won't not get excited to see any change until for a very long time. At least until the current group of bigoted old men kick the bucket.

Just a quick count and I think 11 guys would have to "croak" before significant changes could be made. And some of them are younger than Uchtdorf.

I'm betting it will take something seriously traumatic from the outside to effect significant change in this soft-cult organization. A real paradigm bender is needed.

Otherwise it will continue to be "Mo mo, same same".

And of those 11, their replacements would need to be reformer as well. If their replacements are also hardliners, then that really throws the math off.

I am actually surprised any anyone who could be considered a reformer could ever get to the Q15. When a overwhelming number of the top leadership are die-hards and they vote on who gets to come in to fill vacancies, then naturally they will vote for people who they like (i.e. people who have their same hard line views.) They may get token people to appeal to various populations like bringing some from east Asia or south America, but they still have to pass the litmus test controlled by the die-hards.

End of the day, the whole structure of LDSinc. is setup to resist change at all costs and will only happen when they are dragged to kicking and screaming.

I heard some news today about Kearon . He was in charge of helping out refugees recently in Europe and this is a big one he doesn't have a college degree !! He has had kind of a tougher life than the rest of the 15 . His father died when he was 19 and a couple other interesting facts that I am unable to recall. I heard it on mormonland podcast on you tube.

I get why PIMO members hope for change with any new apostle who seems less extreme than the rest. When I was stuck in the Church, I was hopeful for anything that would make it more bearable.

But even so, I never bought into the idea that President Uchtdorf would be an agent for change - I will always maintain that to even get to the level of the 12, you have to be Church broke, have to have participated in dozens of unjust "Courts of Love", have to have enforced despicable rules and defended despicable actions the Church has taken - it is literally impossible to get to that level in the Church without having been a rat bastard along the way. It's a system that forces a leader to be a rat bastard, and if you choose not to be a rat bastard, you no longer get to be a leader. I promise you, Uchtdorf was a rat bastard just like the rest of them, he's just way more smooth and charismatic than the rest of them. Charisma generally fools a lot of people.

I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble, but the chances of Patrick Kearon even wanting to be a change agent, never mind actually being a change agent, are slim to none.