Did Jesus exist?

[Spicy McHaggis]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nigel-bar ... 83198.html

This article is a few years old but brings up a couple of interesting points:

1-Contemporary historians of Jesus fail to mention him. It says the writings of 126 historians at the time Jesus lived didn't mention him. At all. It compares the story to other sons of god, Mithra, Sandan, Attis and Horus.

2-It mentions Kumare, a movie I haven't seen yet but I've heard it's interesting. It's about someone who wanted to show how easy it is to form a religion and defraud people.

3-It mentions JS's gold digging fraud yet people still believed him.

Anyway, I thought maybe some of you would find this interesting.

[Palerider]

Regarding the existence of Jesus, I think I would consider the source when reading anything from the Huffington Post.

Both the Jewish historian Josephus and the Roman historian Tacitus make mention of Jesus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

[Gatorbait]

Interesting question. Years ago, I stumbled upon a book written by Bart Ehrman called "Misquoting Jesus". I read the book through, and then again.

According to him, the Bible was one huge contradiction. There was no evidence of any original script. No Pauline letters. No copies of original script.

Yet, as LDS church members, I thought, we are expected to believe the Bible, "as far as it is translated correctly". Nonsense. The book is a bunch of stories with no way whatsoever to prove the stories are true.

Later, the same author, Ehrman, has written many follow up books- all with the same conclusion. Bible stories are just stories, and just because someone decided to print these stories and combine them, it doesn't make them true.

Is there evidence that Jesus existed? None that can be proven. Confirmed by the Holy Ghost you say? Ok, where'd the Holy Ghost come from?

Did Jesus ever exist? Does any god exist? In people's minds perhaps. I know football players point heavenward when they did something great on the gridiron. Show their respect. I doubt the thousands of children that starve to death each day- right now- find it difficult to point a finger skyward.

[GoodBoy]

Regarding the existence of Jesus, I think I would consider the source when reading anything from the Huffington Post.

Both the Jewish historian Josephus and the Roman historian Tacitus make mention of Jesus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

I've read quite a bit about this as well. Jesus's name being mentioned by disinterested third parties (as Palerider references above) is a pretty good indicator that he was a real person. This is not to mention the tons of stuff written about him by his followers.

Most scholars don't question whether there really was a man named Jesus. Whether or not he was divine is a matter of faith.

[wtfluff]

Did Jesus exist? It's likely.

If he did exist, it's too bad he never actually wrote any of his "teachings" down, and neither did any of his contemporaries.

The writings about him were written many years after he was dead, by unknown authors. Not exactly great "source material".

[deacon blues]

Interesting question. Years ago, I stumbled upon a book written by Bart Ehrman called "Misquoting Jesus". I read the book through, and then again.

According to him, the Bible was one huge contradiction. There was no evidence of any original script. No Pauline letters. No copies of original script.

Yet, as LDS church members, I thought, we are expected to believe the Bible, "as far as it is translated correctly". Nonsense. The book is a bunch of stories with no way whatsoever to prove the stories are true.

Later, the same author, Ehrman, has written many follow up books- all with the same conclusion. Bible stories are just stories, and just because someone decided to print these stories and combine them, it doesn't make them true.

Is there evidence that Jesus existed? None that can be proven. Confirmed by the Holy Ghost you say? Ok, where'd the Holy Ghost come from?

Did Jesus ever exist? Does any god exist? In people's minds perhaps. I know football players point heavenward when they did something great on the gridiron. Show their respect. I doubt the thousands of children that starve to death each day- right now- find it difficult to point a finger skyward.

Ehrman also wrote a book supporting the historicity of Jesus. He There weren't that many historians @ 30 AD.

[GoodBoy]

If he did exist, it's too bad he never actually wrote any of his "teachings" down, and neither did any of his contemporaries.

The writings about him were written many years after he was dead, by unknown authors. Not exactly great "source material".

It's highly likely (based on where Jesus was from) that Jesus, and the vast majority of his disciples were illiterate. It is also telling that all of the stuff written by the earliest believers was in Greek, while Jesus and his disciples spoke Aramaic. All the writing was also done after Jerusalem had been completely wiped off the map by the Romans because the Jews were revolting (to bring about the Kingdom of God). Jesus was one of those preaching that the Kingdom of God was at hand... thus his execution for treason.

[No Tof]

I would have to say of course to the historical existence.
Even from very early times people had cheeses.

[Hagoth]

Even from very early times people had cheeses.

Yes, but the juice never cared for cheeses, not to mention the romaine empire.

[20/20hind]

We all know how the leadership of the church use their middle initial when referring to themselves, other leaders.

I think your question did Jesus exist should be phrased, did Jesus H. Christ exist.

I think Jesus H. Christ did exist. But I don't think his dad did.

[fh451]

The idea that Jesus was a mythical figure is not accepted by the majority of historians at this point (and I believe John Hamer has talked about and supported the historical position a few times on IOT), but there are a few making the case that Jesus as a specific person likely never existed. Robert M. Price and David Fitzgerald come to mind. I think it's a little early to say the idea is gaining any traction, but they make some interesting arguments.

fh451

[GoodBoy]

A very good book about the life and times of Jesus from a historical perspective, for those interested, is "Zealot" by Reza Aslan.

[Hagoth]

A very good book about the life and times of Jesus from a historical perspective, for those interested, is "Zealot" by Reza Aslan.

I'll second that.

At the very least, Jesus exists in our hearts. Like Santa and Satan.

[asa]

It's highly likely (based on where Jesus was from) that Jesus, and the vast majority of his disciples were illiterate. It is also telling that all of the stuff written by the earliest believers was in Greek, while Jesus and his disciples spoke Aramaic. All the writing was also done after Jerusalem had been completely wiped off the map by the Romans because the Jews were revolting (to bring about the Kingdom of God). Jesus was one of those preaching that the Kingdom of God was at hand... thus his execution for treason.
[/quote
Your view of the literacy question is almost certainly false.
The gospels show Jesus reading from Isaiah in the synagogue . The literacy rate was reasonably high among 1st century Jews.Look at the work of Raymond Brown on the Johannian communities . Who do you suppose was writing the Dead Sea scrolls or the Nag Hammadi documents. Read Josephus or the Ante Nicean fathers . While literacy was not universal among Jewish and Roman communities it was very high. Virtually all ANE scholars agree it was the sacred duty of every Jewish father to insure his son could read and write particularly the Torah

[asa]

I have given some time to look at the literacy rate issue more fully. It is true that some scholars suggest 5 percent is likely in the Greco Roman world but others suggest 50percent in Christian congregations is a reasonable estimate. Certainly I personally have seen multiple letters written by the average Roman soldier stationed on Hadrian Wall . Recent work at Tel Arad in the northern Negev suggest in 600 BC that the average military officer was literate. Similarly a prenuptial agreement between a Jewish woman and an Egyptian man dating around 500 BC found at Elephantine in upper Egypt suggest the typical inhabitant of the garrison there could read. Finally all Athenian citizens had to be able to read as it was required for voting. The picture that emerges in widespread but certainly not universal literacy in Judah at the time of Christ.