Old dogs...old tricks

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Palerider
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Old dogs...old tricks

Post by Palerider » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:05 pm

Lately I've been seeing numerous lds articles about the problem of being over stressed in church with callings, work, family, etc. How the lds people need to kick back a little, relax and take time for themselves. Especially women.

I kept thinking, this is probably more gobbledygook to disarm members who are suffering from guilt and being overworked.

Then I saw this article on the lds website and it confirmed all of my suspicions. It's just amazing to me how much absolute double speak and conflicting messages comes out of lds leadership. They are truly playing games with their members hearts and are the apex of gaslighters and blood suckers.

The story is of the sister who works for the church, over seeing their foreign charity efforts (big job) who also has her family to care for and seems like she's just peddle to the metal trying to keep up when elder Eyring calls her to keep doing everything she's already doing and accept the new calling as a counselor in the general Relief Society presidency.

She tells of all the mental machinations she goes through to make this make sense in her own heart and mind. And of course she accepts the calling. Just as all good men and women should do. An example to all of us.

This church just lies through it's teeth about most things. And then they wonder why we could be so crass as to call bull#**# on them. I honestly don't know how leadership can look themselves in the mirror every day without cringing.

https://www.lds.org/blog/when-youre-alr ... _xLIDyL2-1_
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Give It Time
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Re: Old dogs...old tricks

Post by Give It Time » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:31 pm

Back when we were divorcing, my ex sold our bishop on the lie that people abuse when they're under stress. Therefore, he admitted to being abusive, but he was just so stressed! He needed his wife, as a good helpmeet, to get a job so he could quit his. Then he wouldn't abuse, anymore. A side note is, I know he was considering divorcing me as soon as all my inheritance was under his control and he wanted me to be working and he be unemployed and I pay him alimony. So, his whole sad song to the bishop was just baloney.

Anyway, since my husband is so stressed, it is my job as the helpmeet to get a job so my husband can quit his so we can keep the family intact and the father in the home. I said no to this plan and even had the audacity to say I wasn't going to go to the temple to heal our marriage, because abusers use the obedience covenant to oppress their wives. See, my ex would be able to trot out the obedience covenant, to end his abusiveness and keep the marriage together. Yeah, the bishop didn't like my saying that.

But, wait! Wait a minute....

If the husband is abusive because he's overloaded, why not release him from his calling. The family does come first. Releasing him from his calling would also save my former bishop from giving counsel that is directly counter to church doctrine.

What?....

Wait, now that's just tricky, Sister Time!

Anyway, yes. It's just a bunch of hooey.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Rob4Hope
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Re: Old dogs...old tricks

Post by Rob4Hope » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:33 pm

Give It Time wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:31 pm
If the husband is abusive because he's overloaded, why not release him from his calling. The family does come first. Releasing him from his calling would also save my former bishop from giving counsel that is directly counter to church doctrine.
Its interesting, isn't it how leadership will say the family is the most important unit in the church and how we should put our families first. But then they turnaround in the next sentence and use examples of self-destructive service to the church as "noble" and "spiritual".

I agree with the thread--this is a bunch of hooey...

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Not Buying It
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Re: Old dogs...old tricks

Post by Not Buying It » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:49 am

It reinforces to me that the Brethren couldn't care less about the members. All they care about is that the members do what they want. What happens to the members as they are trying to do what they want is of absolutely no concern to them.

They pretend they are caring and loving, but it is a cold, heartless, selfish, self-obsessed organization they lead.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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1smartdodog
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Re: Old dogs...old tricks

Post by 1smartdodog » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:36 am

It is a sad thing to watch as the church steals the lives away from so many of its members. I know for me it stole a good portion of mine. Lucky I got smart, only wish I would have realized all the nonsense when I was younger
“Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”
― Thomas A. Edison

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nibbler
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Re: Old dogs...old tricks

Post by nibbler » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:08 pm

Palerider wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:05 pm
Lately I've been seeing numerous lds articles about the problem of being over stressed in church with callings, work, family, etc. How the lds people need to kick back a little, relax and take time for themselves. Especially women.
How does one kick back, relax, and take time for themselves in the church? If you take a few Sundays off that's a sunbeams class that doesn't have a teacher. That's a quarterly report that doesn't get submitted by the 10th of the month. That's two families that don't get home taught. As a culture we aren't good at seeing those sorts of thing as being acceptable.

Given that church responsibilities don't take days off, how does one do that? Get substitutes from a pool of already overworked people? Scale back the programs? No, usually it's up to the individual that would like to relax to suck it up and take one for the team again.

Life in general has been really stressful lately and want to make this church thing work somehow but church feels like something that only heaps more burdens upon me than something that could actually bless my life. What's a guy like me to do? So far I've taken the approach of scaling church back, but then I feel like I'm on the outside looking in. In our all or nothing culture I begin to wonder if the only way to take a break from things is to purposely go inactive.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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LostGirl
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Re: Old dogs...old tricks

Post by LostGirl » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:53 am

Life in general has been really stressful lately and want to make this church thing work somehow but church feels like something that only heaps more burdens upon me than something that could actually bless my life. What's a guy like me to do? So far I've taken the approach of scaling church back, but then I feel like I'm on the outside looking in. In our all or nothing culture I begin to wonder if the only way to take a break from things is to purposely go inactive.
^ This, all of this.

As far as I can see the general consensus is that there are 3 groups: stalwarts, slackers and sinners.

If you are not all in and willing to say yes to everything then you are either lazy or clearly a sinner. We offer no space for people to give as much as they feel comfortable with. The all or nothing attitude irks me and makes me want to give nothing.

I have stepped back as much as I can and that came with quite a bit of guilt at first. How could I say no, knowing that someone else would have to fill the void I left behind? The feelings of guilt sometimes linger but I have become more frustrated at the fact that the church seems to never tire of dreaming up new ways to keep us busy. It is almost like they want us to be too busy to stop and think about what the point of it all is. I sincerely hope that this is not the underlying motive but I do wonder sometimes.

blazerb
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Re: Old dogs...old tricks

Post by blazerb » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:11 am

LostGirl wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:53 am
If you are not all in and willing to say yes to everything then you are either lazy or clearly a sinner. We offer no space for people to give as much as they feel comfortable with. The all or nothing attitude irks me and makes me want to give nothing.
This is a huge problem. Even when you have a bishop who understands the need to give up high demand callings, it's seen as a temporary situation. He will still hope to get you back into spending many hours per week doing more and more work as soon as possible. I don't want to give anything. In order to be on the inside, you cannot have time for yourself or real time with your relationships.

Someone once told me about a conversation they had with a nonmember. The nonmember said they would never join a church that had to set aside an evening for the family. That just showed that the church would take up every other bit of time the person had and would not support real family relationships.

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Rob4Hope
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Re: Old dogs...old tricks

Post by Rob4Hope » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:15 am

LostGirl wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:53 am
It is almost like they want us to be too busy to stop and think about what the point of it all is. I sincerely hope that this is not the underlying motive but I do wonder sometimes.
I also use to seriously wonder.

blazerb
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Re: Old dogs...old tricks

Post by blazerb » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:29 am

I just read the article. Ugh. Here is the quote that frustrated me the most:
And finally, perhaps most importantly, if I was too tired and couldn’t see a way to juggle a calling and a job and a family and myself, I could call upon the Holy Ghost and angels to help me. The Lord would open a path or show me what not to do.
We have these leaders who tell us to just rely on inspiration to figure it all out. Survivorship bias guarantees that it worked for all the top leaders. They never have to interact with those who the angels failed to help. They erect their walls that keep people with real problems from telling their stories. We can go to our bishops, maybe even our stake presidents, but these are not the stories told in conference. So, we feel alone and weak. I am pretty sure that most people at church find that the program did not work for them at some level. They just don't get to share their stories.

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moksha
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Re: Old dogs...old tricks

Post by moksha » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:15 am

Are there too many meetings for ward and stake administrators? Some things could be simplified without taking a teacher away from those Sunbeams, right? Seems like hiring a ward janitor would help out a lot.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Palerider
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Re: Old dogs...old tricks

Post by Palerider » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:51 pm

blazerb wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:29 am
I just read the article. Ugh. Here is the quote that frustrated me the most:
And finally, perhaps most importantly, if I was too tired and couldn’t see a way to juggle a calling and a job and a family and myself, I could call upon the Holy Ghost and angels to help me. The Lord would open a path or show me what not to do.
We have these leaders who tell us to just rely on inspiration to figure it all out. Survivorship bias guarantees that it worked for all the top leaders. They never have to interact with those who the angels failed to help. They erect their walls that keep people with real problems from telling their stories. We can go to our bishops, maybe even our stake presidents, but these are not the stories told in conference. So, we feel alone and weak. I am pretty sure that most people at church find that the program did not work for them at some level. They just don't get to share their stories.

And importantly the question is never raised that maybe the Holy Ghost or angels would tell her she shouldn't accept this present calling if she would sincerely ask.

Why?

Because everyone knows that it really isn't Henry B. talking to her. It's God himself issuing this calling. Absolutely no doubt about THAT! So she really doesn't have a choice here does she.....How can you look God straight in the eye and say, "No..."?
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Red Ryder
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Re: Old dogs...old tricks

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:01 pm

At some point you just have to give up and accept the social implications of becoming a half assed mormon. After awhile they get it and accept it and are even secretly jealous!

I've openly told people that I'm the most active inactive member they'll ever meet. They can have me here as an active inactive, or they can spend all of their time and energy trying to re-activate me as an inactive. However I won't be bending over backwards to do stuff for the church.

The church is a hamster wheel. I won't hop back on the hamster wheel.
Elder Nelson seems to have somehow become the mouthpiece of the mouthpiece of God. ~ Hagoth

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