First and Subsequent Visions of Moses

[moksha]

Hey, God never showed himself directly to Moses. Can anyone remember the reason God gave for withholding his true appearance to Moses?

Exodus 33:20 God continued, “But you may not see my face. No one can see me and live.”

[deacon blues]

Exodus 33 (KJV) says God told Moses "no one can see my face and live", so Moses only got to see God's backside, or as it says in the revised American version- God's butt.

[asa]

No unclean thing can be in the presence of God. As fallible inhabitants of a telestial world we would be destroyed if we were in his presence with out being transformed and purified by the Spirit. 1 John 3:2 ; Isaiah 6:5 That is why the earth will be cleansed ' as if by fire" when the Savior returns. Listen to Handel's Messiah ( But who may abide the day of his coming ) . He got it right.

[moksha]

So if no one could see God back in Biblical times and live, how did Joseph Smith get to see him? Was it through the power of the Seer Stone or multi-phasic shielding?

[Not Buying It]

So if no one could see God back in Biblical times and live, how did Joseph Smith get to see him? Was it through the power of the Seer Stone or multi-phasic shielding?

Oh, I was given some made-up explanation that he and anyone else who supposedly saw God or Jesus was temporarily translated. In this religion you can make up any kind of ad hoc crap that explains a problem and members will eat it up.

[Give It Time]

The pillar of light that came down and rested on Joseph is, I recall, the temporary translation. Now, there is no mention of Moses wrestling with the powers of darkness, beforehand. Same thing with the brother of Jared.

[LaMachina]

Unless you factor in the Book of Moses and it's more complete history. That's when Satan demanded worship and threw his hissy fit.

The bro of Jared seems the outlier although as I recall he had not prayed in 4 years so maybe Satan wasn't paying attention? Got thrown off by his apparent lack of righteousness?

But I figured it must be something like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Maybe it's as simple as averting your eyes and your face won't melt off?

[Emower]

I feel like there is a scripture somewhere that talks about seeing god if you are quickened by the spirit. Or maybe it was a conference talk. Who knows.

[2bizE]

Exodus 33 (KJV) says God told Moses "no one can see my face and live", so Moses only got to see God's backside, or as it says in the revised American version- God's butt.

So what is the LDS made up excuse for JS seeing God but Moses couldn't?

[Emower]

D&C 67 states, "“No man has seen God at any time in the flesh, except quickened by the Spirit of God. Neither can any natural man abide the presence of God, neither after the carnal mind."
So yeah, Joseph was quickened, Moses wasnt. As to why, that's not important to salvation.

[Mad Jax]

Exodus 33 (KJV) says God told Moses "no one can see my face and live", so Moses only got to see God's backside, or as it says in the revised American version- God's butt.

So what is the LDS made up excuse for JS seeing God but Moses couldn't?

The JST I believe says "Thou canst see my face at this time." Skoussen says this is because God is wrathful and in his wrath, Moses wouldn't survive the revelation.

[Not Buying It]

Incidentally, Moses was a mass murderer and a moral God would have nothing to do with someone so evil and bloodthirsty:

“The character of Moses, as stated in the Bible, is the most horrid that can be imagined. If those accounts be true, he was the wretch that first began and carried on wars on the score or on the pretence of religion; and under that mask, or that infatuation, committed the most unexampled atrocities that are to be found in the history of any nation. Of which I will state only one instance:

When the Jewish army returned from one of their plundering and murdering excursions, the account goes on as follows (Numbers xxxi. 13): 'And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp; and Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle; and Moses said unto them, 'Have ye saved all the women alive?' behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord. Now therefore, 'kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known a man by lying with him; but all the women- children that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for Yourselves.'

Among the detestable villains that in any period of the world have disgraced the name of man, it is impossible to find a greater than Moses, if this account be true. Here is an order to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers, and debauch the daughters.

Let any mother put herself in the situation of those mothers, one child murdered, another destined to violation, and herself in the hands of an executioner: let any daughter put herself in the situation of those daughters, destined as a prey to the murderers of a mother and a brother, and what will be their feelings?

In short, the matters contained in this chapter, as well as in many other parts of the Bible, are too horrid for humanity to read, or for decency to hear.”
― Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

[moksha]

So that later on revelation in the Doctrine and Covenants was written in order to explain the conundrum of it being impossible for a mortal to see God and live and Joseph seeing an angel, then God, and in a revised First Vision seeing both God and Jesus together? Is this translation related to an energy-matter conversion so that Joseph was caught in the pattern buffer of the energy stream?

BTW, was there ever any D&C revelation about Jesus being born in Jerusalem as opposed to the biblical Bethlehem, such as Joseph having a vision that Bethlehem would one day be located in the State of Palestine so the location needed shifting to a Jewish location?