Polygamy and the afterife

[jfro18]

One thing that drives me nuts is that polygamy is *still* the doctrine of the LDS church... it is still in the D&C... and yet leaders claim that polygamy is no longer being practiced.

And when members are pressed with this incredibly difficult question, they immediately fall back to "we don't know what is going to happen."

But we do know - the current prophet of the church is sealed to two women. How does that not make it perfectly clear what is going to happen in the afterlife?

And that apologist argument was laid out again last night at the "Face to Face" with Quentin Cook - that polygamy is done and not coming back.

Except it never left - only for this life, but not for eternity. And all of the women just nod along and pretend that they're not going to share their husband for eternity as he bangs out spirit children to make planets with.

Drives me insane how easily they lie when it's right there in their own doctrine for all to see.

[Palerider]

Cook tried to take the position that monogamy was the norm and that polygamy was the exception but there are plenty of statements by the "prophets" that the practice of plural marriage was the entry key to the highest kingdom.

They really embarrass themselves when they try to spin this stuff hoping the doctrine and their mitigating explanations won't stink too badly. Reminds me of those unenviable times when I have to go to the local landfill. Nothing can cover that stench....

[moksha]

This is why it was so strange for Mormons to be lecturing anyone about marriage during the Proposition 8 years.

[Corsair]

One thing that drives me nuts is that polygamy is *still* the doctrine of the LDS church... it is still in the D&C... and yet leaders claim that polygamy is no longer being practiced.

Some of the most painful rules of polygamy are absolutely still in place. I have two friends in my stake and let's call them Alice and Bob. Alice and Bob were sealed in the temple and were full believers. Alice was pregnant with their first child when Bob was tragically killed in a car accident. This was awful and I cannot imagine the pain felt by a woman attending her beloved husband's funeral while pregnant with his child.

But Alice delivered a beautiful baby boy while mourning Bob. Alice suddenly discovered this silent and ignored group of young LDS widows who have very difficult prospects for marriage. Very few men want to marry a woman who is sealed to someone else.

But then, Alice somehow did meet and marry Carl. Carl and Alice were civilly married. Carl is a convert. He is also a returned missionary fully worthy of the temple, but his parents are not members. As a result, Carl has never been sealed to anyone and has been looking forward to being sealed to someone and having those blessings. But Alice and Carl were repeatedly denied a clearance for a sealing. They escalated this to the Office of the First Presidency and a very official answer was given that no, they could not be married unless they went through this torturous process of breaking the sealing between Alice and Bob.

This is a rule left over from the old days of polygamy. Alice and Carl have had a couple more children and all of them are techinically sealed to Bob. Carl has shouldered all of the time, work, and expense of being a good father to all of Alice's children, but will get no ecclisiastic endoresement of that situation.

This whole process has convinced Alice and Carl to step away from the LDS church.

[hiding in plain sight]

Most mormons don't want to believe that polygamy is necessary for their salvation. Even as TBM's my wife and I would always joke, that if God asked, we would say no.

As a TBM I would latch on to any statement to help justify my lack of belief in polygamy.

But its hard to ignore things like this:

The only men who become Gods, even the sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 11:269.)

Or this:

“…the one-wife system not only degenerates the human family, both physically and intellectually, but it is entirely incompatible with philosophical notions of immortality; it is a lure to temptation, and has always proved a curse to a people.”
(Official LDS periodical , Millennial Star, Vol. 15, Samuel W. Richards, editor. p. 227 archive.org)

Or even God saying that he justifies people who practice polygamy in our current scriptures:

D&C 132:61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

[Rob4Hope]

Polygamy is a thorn that continues to hurt so many. Its also one of the doctrines of the church that continues to be shrouded in double-speak, innuendo, inside tribal knowledge, and just plain fabrication.

Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball were HORRIBLE husbands and fathers. HORRIBLE! And yet these 2 have been held up as having the Calling and Election ordinance of the 2nd anointing. Why?....because they were so righteous?

Having read about how they treated their families, I can't imagine WHY ANYONE would want to be married to them. They got their wives through coercion. And how they treated men who had something they wanted (as in lusted after someone else wife--isn't that like a sin?) is horrible.

[blazerb]

This is why it was so strange for Mormons to be lecturing anyone about marriage during the Proposition 8 years.

I brought up polygamy in a couple of traditional marriage discussions at church back then. No satisfactory answers were ever given for the discrepancy in what God cares about.

[Palerider]

Cook made it sound like polygamy would never be practiced again in this life. Just like leadership indicated that people of African descent wouldn't hold the priesthood until after the 2nd Coming. We all know what happened there. Circumstances changed.

I think if the circumstances were right and the church was isolated, with an unfettered hand without society or government looking over their shoulder, a guy like Bednar wouldn't have a problem re-instating polygamy.

It isn't a matter of doctrine..... it's only a matter of circumstance.

The doctrine is true. Revealed from God to the greatest prophet that ever lived on Earth. Probably the greatest man who ever lived, save Christ himself. It is a fulfillment of the last grand key to the Celestial world where God lives and reigns according to the Eternal order of the priesthood.

To live in His presence we must live God's life as He lives and according to His grand Celestial order as He does in accordance with the order of the Gods who are Eternally before him. It is the only way to build the worlds where we shall reign and to seal to ourselves a continuation of the seeds....

Finger on lips:

Bdee-bdee-bdee-bdee-bdee.....

[crossmyheart]

One thing that drives me nuts is that polygamy is *still* the doctrine of the LDS church... it is still in the D&C... and yet leaders claim that polygamy is no longer being practiced.

Some of the most painful rules of polygamy are absolutely still in place. I have two friends in my stake and let's call them Alice and Bob. Alice and Bob were sealed in the temple and were full believers. Alice was pregnant with their first child when Bob was tragically killed in a car accident. This was awful and I cannot imagine the pain felt by a woman attending her beloved husband's funeral while pregnant with his child.

But Alice delivered a beautiful baby boy while mourning Bob. Alice suddenly discovered this silent and ignored group of young LDS widows who have very difficult prospects for marriage. Very few men want to marry a woman who is sealed to someone else.

But then, Alice somehow did meet and marry Carl. Carl and Alice were civilly married. Carl is a convert. He is also a returned missionary fully worthy of the temple, but his parents are not members. As a result, Carl has never been sealed to anyone and has been looking forward to being sealed to someone and having those blessings. But Alice and Carl were repeatedly denied a clearance for a sealing. They escalated this to the Office of the First Presidency and a very official answer was given that no, they could not be married unless they went through this torturous process of breaking the sealing between Alice and Bob.

This is a rule left over from the old days of polygamy. Alice and Carl have had a couple more children and all of them are techinically sealed to Bob. Carl has shouldered all of the time, work, and expense of being a good father to all of Alice's children, but will get no ecclisiastic endoresement of that situation.

This whole process has convinced Alice and Carl to step away from the LDS church.

Interesting.
The reason my shelf finally broke is because I have a relative who died (Bob) and Alice petitioned and was granted a cancellation of their sealing so she could marry Carl in the temple. My Alice and Bob had a child together and Bob was EQP at the time of his death- so he was a member in good standing, RM, etc. Alice and Carl had already been married civilly at the time of their petition and Carl had been married in the temple previously and had children from that marriage but they do not have children together and probably never will.

Mostly just sharing this out of catharsis, but my crisis began with how poorly Alice and the church treated my family with the granting of the cancellation of the sealing. obviously there is a longer story here with lots of drama, but in the end, it made me realize that it was all made up. The leaders can just change rules whenever they want when it fits their agenda.