The Reason Miracles are Dead in the LDS Church

[Brent]

The problem with Miracles is in an information age it's impossible to have them and not "PROVE IT".

https://religionnews.com/2019/12/19/nor ... -the-dead/

[iwanttotalk]

The problem with Miracles is in an information age it's impossible to have them and not "PROVE IT".

https://religionnews.com/2019/12/19/nor ... -the-dead/

“Do you still not understand? Don't you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?”

Miracles are only seeable to the faithful and provable to no one else. Christ even raised people from the dead yet the jews crucified him. Its their nature to be exclusively the providence of the faithful

[1smartdodog]

It would be a wonderful world if true miracles actually happened. The promises are there. The rhetoric from church people is constant yet no real miracles.

The real test is to put it on god. Major religions need to tell god to pony up or the gig is over. No more blind obedience or faith. You want devotion then lets see some payback.

Why would god do miracles? Whats in it for him? He has billions already devoted to him with little effort on his part.

It is an interesting thing how much credit god gets for the good in the world but no evidence he had anything to do with it.

I am glad to give god all the credit and glory he can have it, as long as it is for something he did.

So I would tell god to have a little compassion and raise the girl from the dead. It would be utterly fantastic.


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[iwanttotalk]

It would be a wonderful world if true miracles actually happened. The promises are there. The rhetoric from church people is constant yet no real miracles.

The real test is to put it on god. Major religions need to tell god to pony up or the gig is over. No more blind obedience or faith. You want devotion then lets see some payback.

Why would god do miracles? Whats in it for him? He has billions already devoted to him with little effort on his part.

It is an interesting thing how much credit god gets for the good in the world but no evidence he had anything to do with it.

I am glad to give god all the credit and glory he can have it, as long as it is for something he did.

So I would tell god to have a little compassion and raise the girl from the dead. It would be utterly fantastic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think thats the crux of the issues. Even if there is a “answer” it is always based on some kind of falacious argument which humans are susceptable.

Circular logic. Or the no true scotsman fallacy.

Religion turns all of that on its head.
Don't need evidence accept faith!
Dont need reason accept emotion!
Dont need logic accept magical thinking!

In every way it is the inversion of what a learned person would through dilligence and effort come to understand the world as.

And the best part is we know this!
We know L ron Hubbard is a cultist!
We know that Jim Jones ran a cult!
We Know Warren Jeffs is a Cult Leader!

But our brains misfire when it comes to our own tribe. For our own there is always an exception and resort to some kind of fallacious thinking for justification.

[Brent]

“Do you still not understand? Don't you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?”

Miracles are only seeable to the faithful and provable to no one else. Christ even raised people from the dead yet the jews crucified him. Its their nature to be exclusively the providence of the faithful

Sorry but isn't this a copout like "they had insufficient faith"? AND he is saying "YOU saw this. How could you forget it?"

It appears to me that he is chastising primary witnesses...

[deacon blues]

The article is unusual and stunning to me, but for those who claim belief in a literal, fundamentalist type faith it should be a familiar and comfortable concept. Jesus, Paul, and even modern apostle Matthew Cowley (so I've heard) brought back people from the dead. I personally believe there are some kinds of miracles in the LDS Church, and they occur with about the same frequency in other churches (Pentacostal) and other societies that have similar beliefs. Faith in Jesus may heal some people, but does faith in the priesthood do it better? I doubt it.

[Brent]

In an age of instant information/serious skepticism you, in a sense, have to put up or shut up. The poor mother's faith is laudable but can you functionally demand a miracle?

[Brent]

[Miracles are only seeable to the faithful and provable to no one else. Christ even raised people from the dead yet the jews crucified him. Its their nature to be exclusively the providence of the faithful

Trying not to cheap shot this but as a huge Bigfoot fan...only believers believe--everyone else wants DNA.

[moksha]

The idea of miracles is fun, but that leads people into making up miraculous stories to tell in General Conference and other Church venues (although I have a hard time faulting that practice since I like to make up stories for online posts). I suppose one difference between an Apostle's tall tales and my own is that I do not receive a six-figure income plus a parsonage allowance for my stories. Maybe it is true that you "get what you pay for". The bright side to that is Consiglieri does not have to make a podcast fact-checking the ramblings of Moksha.