Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
I was thinking that it would be really difficult for TBMs to go back to their buildings and manage to follow the distancing guidelines, guess RMN and the old guys agree:
In a video posted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on Wednesday afternoon, President Russell M. Nelson said church meetings and temple ceremonies would not resume yet.
Church leaders are continuing to monitor the latest information and will determine how to move forward with gatherings in meetinghouses and temples, President Nelson said. Safety of church members is of "utmost concern," he said, and leaders will "continue to be prayerful and proceed with an abundance of caution."
President Nelson added that even though church meetings and ceremonies are on hold right now, temple ordinances "are of eternal significance" and need to be performed.
"We will clearly communicate step by step when and where such gatherings and other church-sponsored activities may be resumed," President Nelson said.
Church leaders are also currently working to readjust missionary service, President Nelson said.
He assured church members that “wonderful days are ahead.”
“Thank you for serving and loving one another as the Savior would have us do,” he said. “We are grateful for the helpful direction that government health and civic leaders have provided to keep us safe.”
I'll bet this is a relief for most TBMs who have been enjoying their weekends for the past month. I would guess about half the membership would probably still stay home for a while, even if the buildings did open up again.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams
wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 1:35 pm
I'm personally shocked that Rusty is keeping his finger on the "pause" button.
He/They actually made a decision that should end up being good for humanity in general on their own without any outside force (that I know of.)
Their decisions are usually just good for their Corporation™.
If they passed a collection plate around instead of having tithing send to the bishop, you can bet they would be reopening. But they know they can’t get even half a ward into a chapel and maintain the six foot distancing, besides, they are not in a hurry to open up and have 3/4 of their active people not show because they don’t think it is safe. The LDS church will be cautious on this because there is no financial incentive for them to open quickly.
Members are still sending in tithing. Yeah, it may be down a bit. However, expediences are also down. all those utility costs of running church building (lights, HVAC, etc) have gone down dramatically. Maybe even in the COB, people are laid off or furlowed, so payroll is down as well. In the end, expenses are down more than tithing is, so the net tithing after expediences are paid is up.
Why not keep things locked down? They are likely doing better now that they were before it it.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams
What happened with that world wide fast to fix this problem. If the whole world can not budge God to fix it what can?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
“Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”
― Thomas A. Edison
Reuben wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 2:23 am
It's possible they actually, you know, care.
I think they care most about the people they perceive as loyal. But I do think they care.
I think so too, especially when you can compare them to some of those megachurch clowns.
Also, Pres. Nelson has received an enormous outpouring of praise for proving himself to be a true prophet allowing people to have Sunday school at home. Regardless of what he says about when to go to meetings or not go to meetings it will be received as testimony-edifying prophesy. It's kind of a win-win for everybody. The leadership gets more prophet points for guiding us through a great tribulation and the members get to play hooky from church without guilt.
I suspect the next phase will be the most trying. I imagine that will consist breaking up the congregation into smaller social distancing chunks for serial small-group services. That will be a trial for the bishoprics that have to oversee more meetings and for the members who will be assigned massive cleaning assignments to disinfect every square inch between meetings.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Reuben wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 2:23 amIt's possible they actually, you know, care.
I think they care most about the people they perceive as loyal. But I do think they care.
Yeahl, it's "possible" they actually care.
My confirmation bias via observation of their actions from the outside tells me that they care more about their Corporation™ than they do about people, whether those people are loyal or not.
"The Church" is more important than it's adherents. It must be protected at all costs.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus
Hagoth wrote-
Also, Pres. Nelson has received an enormous outpouring of praise for proving himself to be a true prophet allowing people to have Sunday school at home. Regardless of what he says about when to go to meetings or not go to meetings it will be received as testimony-edifying prophesy.
Exactly this. RMN is the mouth piece for Mormon god, not the government. By not opening churches yet, RMN is demonstrating to the flock that only he knows when god thinks it’s time to go back. More praise, more accolades from the masses, and more spiritual bj’s for RMN from the GAs and leadership.
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth
Hagoth wrote-
Also, Pres. Nelson has received an enormous outpouring of praise for proving himself to be a true prophet allowing people to have Sunday school at home. Regardless of what he says about when to go to meetings or not go to meetings it will be received as testimony-edifying prophesy.
Exactly this. RMN is the mouth piece for Mormon god, not the government. By not opening churches yet, RMN is demonstrating to the flock that only he knows when god thinks it’s time to go back. More praise, more accolades from the masses, and more spiritual bj’s for RMN from the GAs and leadership.
Where can I get one of those spiritual BJs? Sounds nice.
In a video posted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on Wednesday afternoon, President Russell M. Nelson said church meetings and temple ceremonies would not resume yet.
Yeah, I got that email and then less than 17 hours later I got another email about several temples that are going to start a phased opening on 5/11/2020.
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin
In a video posted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on Wednesday afternoon, President Russell M. Nelson said church meetings and temple ceremonies would not resume yet.
Yeah, I got that email and then less than 17 hours later I got another email about several temples that are going to start a phased opening on 5/11/2020.
Kinda confirms w2mz's suggestion that it's about establishing control by working to God's agenda rather than Man's, even though the two might just be a few hours out of synch.
One thing for sure, few members are going to be disappointed if The Prophet tells us to wait another year (or two) before resuming full activity. If he did make that announcement members would be praising his wisdom and inspired insight. On the other hand, if he did tell us to go back to church today, they would likely receive it with the same enthusiasm. At least, that would be the outward reaction. "Looks like meat. Tastes like meat. It isn't meat at all. Doubleplus good!”
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Now that I think about it, church gatherings in a chapel every Sunday equals exposure to all types of germs, viruses and bacteria because I don't think chapels were ever disinfected for flu, colds, etc. The benches, the pulpit, bathrooms, sacrament trays, cutting the bread with bare hands, passing the tray around, from hand to hand. Not to mention all the coughing that goes on every Sunday and the same air recirculating. Grateful for healthy immune systems. In these corona times - not ending anytime soon - attending church would spell trouble for seniors and anyone with a compromised immune system. There is no way for them to keep people 6 ft apart if kids and teens are involved. It's just not safe if they are breathing the same air. One person with corona can infect the entire group, whether it's a full congregation of just a few. I am wondering how the church is going to fare the rest of the year because there is no chance they will be able to open in 2020. Not when the number of cases are still up and when they've decided to open businesses again and with all the people out. If anything cases will go up substantially. That said, I say bye bye to regular church attendance until sometime next summer. I am being optimistic here. LOL. Seriously, this corona thing is a 1-2 year thing and churches will be the last on the list to become fully functional as before.
Back as a TBM, I used to hate taking my kids to church during the winter. Primary and the nursery in particular were breeding grounds for germs.
I hated how no matter how many times the leadership would say to stay home if kids were sick, there were members who would always show up and them dump their kids on primary. They would complain on Facebook how sick their kids were, but they sure did take them to church. Some wouldn't even try to hide it by doping their kids up with Tylenol before church. If a leader tried to sends a sick kids back to their parents, there were several arguments over that. End of the day, their sick kids would end up getting my kids sick.
When DW was PP, that was one of her biggest peeves. One thing she did was convince the bish to provide disinfectant wipes to the nursery to clean toys with each week.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams
I think the lawyers are really making these decisions. It's a big liability if Russ tells everyone to go back to church then some new cases get traced back to the gathers/buildings. This does pose a potentially difficult road ahead for the corporation.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams
Just This Guy wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 6:36 am
Back as a TBM, I used to hate taking my kids to church during the winter. Primary and the nursery in particular were breeding grounds for germs.
I hated how no matter how many times the leadership would say to stay home if kids were sick, there were members who would always show up and them dump their kids on primary. They would complain on Facebook how sick their kids were, but they sure did take them to church. Some wouldn't even try to hide it by doping their kids up with Tylenol before church. If a leader tried to sends a sick kids back to their parents, there were several arguments over that. End of the day, their sick kids would end up getting my kids sick.
When DW was PP, that was one of her biggest peeves. One thing she did was convince the bish to provide disinfectant wipes to the nursery to clean toys with each week.
The church building always felt dingy to me. Never really clean. I'm sure there were some people in charge of nursery that took the job serious enough to clean the toys and chairs, but I know that if it were me, I'd be chomp'n at the bit to get out of there. Good thing I wasn't in charge. I feel the same about fast food playgrounds. Those dirty fingers and faces swimming around in all those plastic balls; the smeared dirt on slides and windows. Yuck. It always felt like a pandemic movie just waiting to be written.
As for bringing sick kids to primary, I never could understand that. I would look at it as a great opportunity to skip going to church. I guess that shows how faithless I was as a TBM. Actually, it wasn't so much being faithless as it was yet another notch at not being good enough; I did not enjoy services or callings. I wanted to, but I never did. A little more guilt on the pile.
I was thinking that it would be really difficult for TBMs to go back to their buildings and manage to follow the distancing guidelines, guess RMN and the old guys agree:
In a video posted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on Wednesday afternoon, President Russell M. Nelson said church meetings and temple ceremonies would not resume yet.
Church leaders are continuing to monitor the latest information and will determine how to move forward with gatherings in meetinghouses and temples, President Nelson said. Safety of church members is of "utmost concern," he said, and leaders will "continue to be prayerful and proceed with an abundance of caution."
President Nelson added that even though church meetings and ceremonies are on hold right now, temple ordinances "are of eternal significance" and need to be performed.
"We will clearly communicate step by step when and where such gatherings and other church-sponsored activities may be resumed," President Nelson said.
Church leaders are also currently working to readjust missionary service, President Nelson said.
He assured church members that “wonderful days are ahead.”
“Thank you for serving and loving one another as the Savior would have us do,” he said. “We are grateful for the helpful direction that government health and civic leaders have provided to keep us safe.”
I'll bet this is a relief for most TBMs who have been enjoying their weekends for the past month. I would guess about half the membership would probably still stay home for a while, even if the buildings did open up again.
I think this will be hard on the old and vulnerable. Like my dad whose only source of socialization is church. No church, no temple, no ministering in person. That's pretty hard on him. Yet some things are a relief too. He's in his 90s and still gets called to help with people moving and doing extra whatevers. He is a believer in not saying no, and to his disgust, that's rare (to my disgust, the church takes advantage of him). Nevertheless, he does miss the activity and being around other true believers, since most of his family is out.
One thing I question is whether you grab the tray with your naked hands... Then grab the cup and bread that was prepared by someone not wearing gloves. That metal tray passing from hand to hand. Looks like covid-19 has no chance. I guess, after sacrament is over everyone washes their hands before they put all the germs and virus from the tray and plastic cups onto their steering wheels, cell phone buttons, door handles etc
