#givethanks

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
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wtfluff
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Re: #givethanks

Post by wtfluff » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:26 am

jfro18 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:04 am
But bottom line is that this was a heavily produced marketing campaign that used people's worries about the pandemic to lure them in. It was a nice talk by Nelson, but it just feels so dirty that they used worries about the pandemic to get people to tune in.
Wasn't it just a few months back when they encouraged a "Social Media Fast?"

Flip-Flop much LDS-Inc.?


ETA: The real hashtag should be: #IamPartOfaMarketingCampaign
Last edited by wtfluff on Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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Cnsl1
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Re: #givethanks

Post by Cnsl1 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:33 am

Ok, so THIS is why I'm seeing all the thanks on Facebook. And this is why my wife is feeling sad that her stupid husband doesn't express his gratitude for his wife publicly on social media that he rarely expresses anything on.

Here are my thoughts about this:

First off, expressing gratitude is a very good thing. It is psychologically healthy for the expresser, in particular. It sometimes helps another person feel good as well, but the psychological benefits are primarily within the person giving the thanks. I applaud that idea.

However, encouraging the flock to express in social media? Did RMN really suggest that? Oh good Lord. Now it becomes a contest and can lead to more people feeling depressed because they are not receiving the gratitude, the likes, the attention, the dopamine hits that come with social media attention.

I get that social media is our new social normal. But it's not social normative. And I get that it's not MY fault if my grateful comment about my wonderful life and family makes you feel more awful about your sucky life and dysfunctional family. Gratitude is great, but it's personal. It's not meant to be broadcast to millions.

That's what I think.

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Hagoth
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Re: #givethanks

Post by Hagoth » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:43 pm

Thoughtful wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:31 pm
My thought is: what breaking controversy or scandal is this covering up for?

If not, its just attention seeking and self validation.
It was an attempt to answer to the question everybody's been asking themselves (but not daring to say out loud): Why isn't the prophet, seer, revelator, and mouthpiece of Almighty God saying anything in the time of our lives when we need it most?

He didn't have anything to say, but he had to say something.

Those who were looking for a prophetic message were somehow able to convince themselves they were hearing something special and revelatory, which is something for which they have had plenty of practice.

Everybody else saw it as somewhere between a friendly little slice of nothing and the abomination that lit Hermey's fuse.

Regardless, the overwhelming message that everyone should get from it, believer or disbeliever, is that there is no help coming from the COB. Sink or swim on your own, brothers and sisters.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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2bizE
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Re: #givethanks

Post by 2bizE » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:27 pm

Fellow passengers.I listened to the message from Nelson. I thought it was rather good. It seemed to be a message of Hope and gratitude. It seemed to be free of most of the Mormonisms that annoy so many of us. It was a fairly mainstream Christian message, which seems to be a place where Mormonism is trying to get.
I hoped to find a version that shows all of the tweets displaying. If someone has a link to that please let me know.
~2bizE

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Phil Lurkerman
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Re: #givethanks

Post by Phil Lurkerman » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:12 pm

2bizE wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:27 pm
Fellow passengers.I listened to the message from Nelson. I thought it was rather good. It seemed to be a message of Hope and gratitude. It seemed to be free of most of the Mormonisms that annoy so many of us. It was a fairly mainstream Christian message, which seems to be a place where Mormonism is trying to get.
I hoped to find a version that shows all of the tweets displaying. If someone has a link to that please let me know.
I think this is the key to understanding this event. It was a safe, very mainstream Christian friendly message that begins to rebrand RMN and future LDS presidents as "Worldwide Faith Leaders.” This is quite different than prophets, seers, and revelators - more in line with the kind of leaders who draw large crowds and get to speak or give prayers at inaugurations. #rebranding
I was once a cafeteria Mormon on a hunger strike. Have since found a buffet elsewhere.

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Culper Jr.
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Re: #givethanks

Post by Culper Jr. » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:15 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:43 pm
He didn't have anything to say, but he had to say something.
Hagoth wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:43 pm
Regardless, the overwhelming message that everyone should get from it, believer or disbeliever, is that there is no help coming from the COB. Sink or swim on your own, brothers and sisters.
Yup, exactly. A constant theme of my arguments with family about the church is the efficacy of having a prophet. When I point out that they are often wrong, or really say nothing of importance, I get the "they're not perfect, speaking as a man" lines, and the increasingly watered down definition of what a prophet is. To which I reply, "then what good are they?"

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wtfluff
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Re: #givethanks

Post by wtfluff » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:12 pm

2bizE wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:27 pm
It seemed to be free of most of the Mormonisms that annoy so many of us.
Maybe it's just me, but that prayer was about as MORmON as you can get.

#GiveThanks
#MORmONMarketingGimmick




You know, if I were actually good at being an angry apostate, instead of the angry reject apostate in the basement...

I'd have some fancy "Social Media" account(s) where I could actually share what I think openly. It would be fun to hijack the COJCOL-dS hashtags, and add a few fun ones of my own from "The Essays," with direct links to the essays of course.

#SeveralMonthsBeforeHer15thBirthday
#JosephWas37
#CarefullyWordedDenials
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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2bizE
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Re: #givethanks

Post by 2bizE » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:51 pm

Just had a thought.... Suppose OAKS was the World faith leader at this time. How would his message have been different?
~2bizE

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blazerb
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Re: #givethanks

Post by blazerb » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:29 am

2bizE wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:51 pm
Just had a thought.... Suppose OAKS was the World faith leader at this time. How would his message have been different?
I. Thanks

The world uses the word "thanks" to express gratitude. Typically, it is expressed to someone around you. Converted Latter-day Saints know that thanks should also be expressed to Deity.

II. Giv[e]

To "give" is to transfer ownership to another. Often, we give presents of material items that quickly decay and are forgotten. Giving thanks is most important. That is, we need to transfer ownership of our gratitude.

III. -ing

The suffix -ing is use to indicate the progressive tense of a verb. This means that the action is ongoing. It does not belong in the past or the future but is occurring at the present. It has been started in the past and will continue into the future. Our giving of thanks should already have started and must continue if it is to be efficacious in overcoming our selfish natural selves.

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Hagoth
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Re: #givethanks

Post by Hagoth » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:49 am

2bizE wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:51 pm
Just had a thought.... Suppose OAKS was the World faith leader at this time. How would his message have been different?
Even if it was word-for-word the same it wouldn't seem sincere.

If it had been Bednar, somehow he would have found a way to put the blame for the virus on the members of the church.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: #givethanks

Post by Hagoth » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:09 am

The part of this talk that I had a problem with was when Pres. Nelson referred to himself twice as, "a man of science." I present the following evidence to the contrary:
To think that man evolved from one species to another is, to me, incomprehensible. Man has always been man. Dogs have always been dogs. Monkeys have always been monkeys. It's just the way genetics works.
Anyone who studies the workings of the human body has surely seen God moving in his majesty and power.'(D&C 88:47) Because the body is governed by divine law, any healing comes by obedience to the law upon which that blessing is predicated. Yet some people erroneously think that these marvelous physical attributes happened by chance or resulted from a big bang somewhere. Ask yourself, Could an explosion in a printing shop produce a dictionary?’ The likelihood is most remote. But if so, it could never heal its own torn pages or reproduce its own newer editions!
Others have deduced that, because of certain similarities between different forms of life, there has been a natural selection of the species, or organic evolution from one form to another. Many of these people have concluded that the universe began as a “big bang” that eventually resulted in the creation of our planet and life upon it. To me, such theories are unbelievable! Could an explosion in a printing shop produce a dictionary? It is unthinkable! Even if it could be argued to be within a remote realm of possibility, such a dictionary could certainly not heal its own torn pages or renew its own worn corners or reproduce its own subsequent editions!
Referring to the teaching of evolution and cosmology:
Of course, we know that “there is an opposition in all things.” (2 Ne. 2:11.) In the world, even many so-called “educators” teach ideas that are contrary to divine truth. We must be mindful of this prophetic counsel: “O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. We need not be reminded that the work and glory of the Lord are opposed by the forces of Satan, the master of deceit. Remember, “Man may deceive his fellow-men, deception may follow deception, and the children of the wicked one may have power to seduce the foolish and untaught, till naught but fiction feeds the many, and the fruit of falsehood carries in its current the giddy to the grave.” (JS—H 1:71, footnote.)
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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blazerb
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Re: #givethanks

Post by blazerb » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:49 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:09 am
The part of this talk that I had a problem with was when Pres. Nelson referred to himself twice as, "a man of science." I present the following evidence to the contrary:

(bunch of quotes that should be embarrassing to RMN)
I thought about this a lot while watching. It was an argument from authority. He helped develop some tools and techniques for surgery; therefore, you should accept him as a representative of God. It was a non-sequitur.

I can only imagine what could be dug up if we compared his beliefs with the conclusions of psychology or sociology. Physics and biology are easier to establish, but the psychological falsehoods taught at church are probably more damaging, not to mention economics.

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Hagoth
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Re: #givethanks

Post by Hagoth » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:05 am

blazerb wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:49 am
I thought about this a lot while watching. It was an argument from authority. He helped develop some tools and techniques for surgery; therefore, you should accept him as a representative of God. It was a non-sequitur.
Let's not forget that Ben Carson is a skilled brain surgeon who believes absolutely wacky religious claims. He thinks the pyramids are Joseph's grain silos. Literally 10 seconds of actual research would disprove that:
Image
I have no doubt that Nelson was a brilliant surgeon and I think he deserves credit for that, but he really needs some brushing up on his fundamental biochemistry and genetics. What they're teaching in college biology classes today is lightyears beyond what he would have studied. And he has absolutely no basis for making general dismissals of current astronomical research.

Overall, he's pretty impressive for a ninety-freakin'-six year old.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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2bizE
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Re: #givethanks

Post by 2bizE » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:34 am

blazerb wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:29 am
2bizE wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:51 pm
Just had a thought.... Suppose OAKS was the World faith leader at this time. How would his message have been different?
I. Thanks

The world uses the word "thanks" to express gratitude. Typically, it is expressed to someone around you. Converted Latter-day Saints know that thanks should also be expressed to Deity.

II. Giv[e]

To "give" is to transfer ownership to another. Often, we give presents of material items that quickly decay and are forgotten. Giving thanks is most important. That is, we need to transfer ownership of our gratitude.

III. -ing

The suffix -ing is use to indicate the progressive tense of a verb. This means that the action is ongoing. It does not belong in the past or the future but is occurring at the present. It has been started in the past and will continue into the future. Our giving of thanks should already have started and must continue if it is to be efficacious in overcoming our selfish natural selves.
Yes, yes....this is Oaks for sure...
~2bizE

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2bizE
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Re: #givethanks

Post by 2bizE » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:55 pm

I would like to #givethanks for gasoline. Without it, I would not be able to drive my new Range Rover and my wife would not be able to drive her older model 2019 Lexus.

....I forgot to add the Lincoln Navigator for my daughter and new BMW for my 16 year old son..../S

This sounds like a number of posts I’ve seen on Facebook from members
Last edited by 2bizE on Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
~2bizE

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2bizE
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Re: #givethanks

Post by 2bizE » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:00 pm

MoPag wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:04 pm
Love the rant Hermey
Hermey wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:57 pm
Mormonism is like up-Chuck-A-Rama. It's the ultimate buffet of mediocre fare. If they're honest, very few people really want to eat there. But they go along without objection because the group wants to. Additionally, it's expensive for what you get. People quietly pick and choose what they will and won't eat, and they keep their true thoughts to themselves.
And this is the most accurate description of Mormonism I've ever read ever.
I like the Chuck-a-Rama analogy.
I like going there on occasion because you don’t have to wait for someone to bring out your food, you can eat what you want...however as far as church doctrine goes (Food choices at Chuck-a-Rama constitute different gospel doctrines) the only doctrine I would choose would be the French fries. I say French fries because I once paid $15 for my son to eat there and all he ate was French fries and slurpies....
~2bizE

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moksha
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Re: #givethanks

Post by moksha » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:17 pm

Utah families have been told that only six people may meet together for Thanksgiving and 30 for a funeral, so Utah families will be holding funerals for multiple turkeys this Thursday.


2bizE wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:00 pm
(Food choices at Chuck-a-Rama constitute different gospel doctrines) the only doctrine I would choose would be the French fries.
Hope we could also offer an Asian section for some curried noodles and kimchi.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Cnsl1
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Re: #givethanks

Post by Cnsl1 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:17 am

After initially feeling trepidatious about the #givethanks call, I think that for the most part it's a positive thing for people. I admit that it's probably doing more good than bad, though one bad, if bad enough, can erase a lot of good. Crossing fingers. I'm hopeful.

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Just This Guy
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Re: #givethanks

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:58 am

There have been a number of people come out of Facebook obscurity to put the church marketing campaign. There have been a few people that i literally have not seen on Facebook in many years. A few I haven't seen in nearly 10 years, so much so that I forgot I was FB friends with them and I thought I was being spammed or was hacked. No. Its zombie accounts coming back to life with their #'s.

Who dug out the FB Necronomicon?

If nothing else, a quick 30 day snooze to each one and I get the feeling it will be another decade before they come back to life again.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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alas
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Re: #givethanks

Post by alas » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:39 am

My dear sweet used to be TBM daughter in law posted a really great first post on the gratitude thing. She said that gratitude is good and all but it doesn’t fix the pandemic, it doesn’t fix homelessness or domestic violence or...and she named a few other things that just being grateful won’t fix. Then she went on to say how expressing thanks for all the great things we have is meaningless if we don’t work to fix real problems for real people. She then named some organizations that try to fix some of the problems she had mentioned and how she is grateful such organizations exist, and suggested that as a demonstration of gratitude for the blessing we do have, that we make a donation to an organization that is trying to fix real problems. Put your money where your mouth is sort of. I am SOOOO glad my son married that wonderful woman. (I have noticed from Facebook that she is following several questioning and NOMish websites, so she is not as TBM as she used to be)

Her second post on gratitude was about how Mormonism teaches there is opposition in all things and how to know the sweet, we need to taste the bitter and how when their one baby died, there was a wonderful organization that helped them through their grief. And how grateful she is for them and of course gave donation information.

I really like the idea of showing our gratitude by helping others who don’t have our reasons to be grateful. If we won’t help those who are homeless, are we really grateful for our house and that we are economically safe enough to own a house? Nope. We need to act on gratitude or it is like the gun lovers offering “thoughts and prayers” after a school shooting instead of making meaningful changes to gun laws to keep machine guns out of the hands of the crazies of the world. We need to actually do something to solve the problems or our gratitude is empty talk.

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