“Carry Overs” into the next life?

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
User avatar
Angel
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 8:26 am

Re: “Carry Overs” into the next life?

Post by Angel » Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:56 pm

Palerider wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:45 am
Angel wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:08 am

sorry if that was not clear, I was being sarcastic -

No, I'm sorry!

I totally missed that. I was trying to figure out a way of saying kindly that you must be a taco shy of a full platter.... :oops:

:)
I should not have made light of it, so many horror stories from WW2, crazy what war does to people. Everyone always thinks - if I was there, I would have stood up against racism etc... some of the recent BLM stuff has brought a few similar elements to the front, who decides to stand with cops, who stays silent, who marched with protestors. From civil rights of the 60's to now - time tells who was on the *correct* side of history.

Saul/Paul - Saul, so sure of himself, he went around killing people for his beliefs.... so sure of himself.... everyone is so sure of themselves because of the information and experiences they have had. A little more information, a few different experiences, and that Saul/Paul transformation can happen.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

hmb
Posts: 364
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:43 am

Re: “Carry Overs” into the next life?

Post by hmb » Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:41 am

Angel wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:24 am
Just This Guy wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:02 am
If any adverse mentality that we have will carry over to the afterlife, what happens when the adverse mentality is a result of mortal imperfections?

Example, a person live in chronic pain due to a genetic defect, say multiple sclerosis. This has resulted in an dependence on opioid painkillers to get through life. When they die and their body is perfected, then the source of their constant pain will be removed. They will no longer need pain killers, does that mean that they will be cured of their opioid dependence? They are being punished for eternity for something that is God's fault to start with.

How about someone with an addiction that is not the fault of the person in question? Lets say person is addicted to opioids again, but this is due a doctor over prescribing them after they were in an accident? This person suffers due to the actions of someone else exercising their agency. Will they get a pass? Should a person be punished for eternity because of the sins of someone else?

Someone could argue that it could be dependent on the person trying to overcome their addiction. Still, you have issues. How about the person who dies in an accident on their way to checking themselves into rehab? Someone is trying to overcome a sin, but is killed before they can really start the process, should they be punished for eternity for just dying at an inconvenient time?

Then you have the fact that many people never full get over addictions. There are some addictions that stay with you for your full life. You may never touch a drop of alcohol for decades, but you can still have that mental need for it that they fight until their last breath. Will that person have the addiction in the next life because they had it when they died, even thought they fought to not give in for years?

There are so many different examples you can come up with. As we learn the cause and effect of being human, there is more and more that is not clearly cut and dried good vs. evil. So does God make exceptions to the rule for extenuating circumstances? If he does, where is the line drawn?
I found that horrible Calvainst video/talk the church put out - https://youtu.be/Rr8xvw0cgw0

Consider an abused kid - 5 years old, severe abuse - listening to this talk being told the abuse was "love-inspired correction".

Mormon beliefs about a premortal world allow members to justify predestination - that little abused kid must have deserved their horror abuse because of what they did in the premortal world. Those born in developing countries, those born under terrorist regimes - they all deserved their lot because of who they were in the pre-existence. In essence - "the test" - is already done, you were tested before you were born, and this life is just a result of how you behaved in the premortal world.

Mormons essentially believe the great and noble spirits are already chosen, those with the easy life earned that life in the premortal world, and those who are handicapped or born into less favorable circumstances - you can ignore these people as they are not noble, not chosen, not worth your time.
Interesting. I was taught the opposite. Those born with handicaps or a lesser station have already proven their worth, and are sent to test the rest of us. Those born with privilege must prove themselves worthy of a celestial reward. The exceptions are if someone's calling and election is made sure, and if you have a dark skin. Black people were less than valiant in the preexistence; seed of Cain, etc. Even as a young kid I wondered how that was fair?

I was taught that we will all watch "movies" of everyone's lives. We get to see the sins of those who did not truly repent. Our hell will be the excruciating guilt that follows, and being cut off from HF and Jesus. Fire and brimstone isn't literal, it's the stopping of our increase. I'll take the lack of increase over eternal marriage and church callings. CK sounds like hell.

User avatar
Angel
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 8:26 am

Re: “Carry Overs” into the next life?

Post by Angel » Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:00 pm

hmb wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:41 am

Interesting. I was taught the opposite. Those born with handicaps or a lesser station have already proven their worth, and are sent to test the rest of us. Those born with privilege must prove themselves worthy of a celestial reward. The exceptions are if someone's calling and election is made sure, and if you have a dark skin. Black people were less than valiant in the preexistence; seed of Cain, etc. Even as a young kid I wondered how that was fair?

I was taught that we will all watch "movies" of everyone's lives. We get to see the sins of those who did not truly repent. Our hell will be the excruciating guilt that follows, and being cut off from HF and Jesus. Fire and brimstone isn't literal, it's the stopping of our increase. I'll take the lack of increase over eternal marriage and church callings. CK sounds like hell.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it is church policy to NOT give assistance to those with permanent handicaps, only temporary assistance for individuals deemed capable of supporting themselves in the near future. The Mormon church has no homeless shelters, does not have hospitals like the Catholics do. Case after case in our ward, I had to use outside resources, and my own resources, for those who came in for help because the church did nothing.

No legal help for kids who were abused by HP councilor either. You get a Mormon therapist who will try to convince child they were not in fact hurt, and that part of the sin was with them. Stay away from therapists from the church, or legal counsel from the church - they are there to save their own hide, NOT to help.

compare boy scouts to church. boy scouts is broke for helping families who were abused.
church is sitting on billions, paying out pennies.

Yes, the priesthood ban on blacks was evil, as is current priesthood ban on women.

"calling and election" - are you JW?
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

User avatar
deacon blues
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:37 am

Re: “Carry Overs” into the next life?

Post by deacon blues » Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:38 pm

I watched the Elder Christofferson video that Angel posted. I think part of the problem is people take a particular message too seriously, or people have a different viewpoint and can't understand the message. Did Christofferson ever thing God wants some of us to be current bushes, and some of us to be pine trees? A parable could have different meanings for different people.
What is existence like after this life? Heck, I don't know. I don't even know if there is an existence; But if God is as loving as my mother it will be pretty nice. Because love is what really makes the difference. The kind of love that makes us want to understand others, and want what's best for them. The kind of love that is wise, or seems to be wise to me, but i could be wrong.
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 4146
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: “Carry Overs” into the next life?

Post by moksha » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:59 am

Angel wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:56 pm
From civil rights of the 60's to now - time tells who was on the *correct* side of history.
Even as a child, I could tell that Bull Connor was on the wrong side of history when he ordered fire hoses and attack dogs to be used against peaceful civil rights marchers. Some items are blatantly wrong, such as kneeling on someone's neck till they die.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
Angel
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 8:26 am

Re: “Carry Overs” into the next life?

Post by Angel » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:06 pm

moksha wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:59 am
Angel wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:56 pm
From civil rights of the 60's to now - time tells who was on the *correct* side of history.
Even as a child, I could tell that Bull Connor was on the wrong side of history when he ordered fire hoses and attack dogs to be used against peaceful civil rights marchers. Some items are blatantly wrong, such as kneeling on someone's neck till they die.
History repeats itself.
Sounds like Hitler was a drug addict, became paranoid delusional, killed almost 200 of his own generals. All of them - they were given performance enhancers, they were all out of their minds.

Protect your minds, from drugs to repeated exposure to the same information over and over - the same book over and over - I guess those here are all deprogramming too.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests