Evangelicals

[Hagoth]

Evangelicals. What do they really teach and believe?

I went to an evangelical megachurch not long ago. The had very high production value, with a great band and impressive multimedia show on multiple giant screens. The minister was very polished and well groomed. There were a lot of mentions of the name of Jesus and Lord. Almost no actual substantive teaching about him, but lots of praising his name, and beautiful imagery of Jesus, angels, sunrises, doves, etc. The sermon was a feel good, God loves you and you can do anything sort of message, but no real doctrine except carefully selected generic Bible passages.

But when I hear Evangelicals talking outside of church it seems to be mainly a message of hate, discrimination, shaming, and exclusion.

I don't get it. What's the deal? Are the bad eggs getting all of the sound bites, or is that really the undercurrent of Evangelicalism? All of the love thy enemy, forgive seven times seventy, walk an extra mile, turn the other cheek stuff that Jesus seemed to have taught as his central tenets gets very little air time these days.

[wtfluff]

Hmm...

Sounds a bit like the propaganda preached in General Conference vs. the actual reality of what happens outside of General Conference when it comes to LD$-Inc.

Or what the LD$-Inc. missionaries preach, vs. reality.

[moksha]

I know there are at least two schools of Evangelicals: the religious and the non-religious. One of the religious Evangelicals posts at Discuss Mormonism and she seems like a nice and caring person. The other sort of Evangelicals are political. They are the ones who would crucify Jesus if he denied the divinity of Donald Trump.

[MoPag]

I think it's a spectrum.

I go to a Christian church with my nurse friends sometimes. But I don't know if they are considered evangelical. They have a really heavy emphasis on music/fine arts and most of the messaging is pretty benign. I haven't heard any hell fire and brimstone. But the church I've been to is kind of a stand-alone church. They don't report to a governing body of any kind. I think there are evangelicals that belong to larger groups. Maybe they have more rules that make them more excluding?

If you haven't checked out the podcast MEGA, you totally should. https://www.megathepodcast.com/
They were on Mormon stories a while ago. Their podcast is a satire about evangelical churches.

[Hagoth]

I haven't heard any hell fire and brimstone.

That was another thing I found interesting about the church I attended. Unlike the Evangelical televangelists I have watched, or the revivals I attended in the Deep South, there was nothing threatening or apocalyptic about the message. In fact, you could have almost replaced the name Jesus with Mohammed or Buddha, and swapped out the graphics with appropriate images, and the message would have been fundamentally the same, even though the production, on the surface, seemed to be all about Jesus.

My favorite feature was free coffee, but they also had a really nice and expensive coffee/snack bar, if you wanted to spring for a latte and fancy pastry.

Overall, it was an impressive presentation compared to LDS church, and I think our friends who invited us were surprised that we weren't won over for repeat performances, but I had no desire to return because there just wasn't any content. More like a pep rally for Jesus.

[moksha]

Hagoth, is there any way you could visit both Unity of Salt Lake and the Center for Spiritual Living on separate Sundays and give us a report?

Just a thought.

[Hagoth]

Hagoth, is there any way you could visit both Unity of Salt Lake and the Center for Spiritual Living on separate Sundays and give us a report?

I will if you'll meet me there.

When I go to church on Sunday it is The Divine Assembly (the mushroom church).

[moksha]

I will if you'll meet me there.

I am mostly housebound tethered to an oxygen concentrator. I remember those two churches as having more inspiring messages than evangelical assemblies.

I imagine the Mushroom Church leads to good visions. BTW, is their mascot Mr. Truffluffegas?

[MoPag]

My favorite feature was free coffee, but they also had a really nice and expensive coffee/snack bar, if you wanted to spring for a latte and fancy pastry.

Oh yes! Ours does free coffee and donuts!!!! (DD's favorite part)

Another thing that surprised me; church members are really honored to be able to volunteer for the church. Like there are waiting lists for volunteer parking lot attendants, door greeters and random stuff like that. And the people are genuinely happy to be picked to help out.

[deacon blues]

The problem I see is that evangelicals are becoming like the gospels present the Priests and Pharisees in Jesus's time: Condemning people, creating us vs. them political divisions, etc.
Plus, many seem to be aligning with MAGA, which reminds me of the zealots of Jesus's time, as described by Josephus.
It seems like history repeating itself. When people, even prophets and evangelicals get a little power they seek to compel others rather than use charity and long suffering.
Note the "Louisiana requires Ten commandments in classrooms" post here in Doctrinal Discussion.

[Hagoth]

Another thing that surprised me; church members are really honored to be able to volunteer for the church.

Big difference from Mormonism. We took our kids to the Lutheran church for Cub Scouts. They did such a great job because they allowed people to volunteer for the things they love to do and they made a lifetime pursuit out of sharing their excitement and talents with the kids, rather than grudgingly dragging themselves to the meetings and doing the absolute minimum, and being ashamed that they weren't in big, important callings.

[nibbler]

Evangelicals. What do they really teach and believe?

I live in an area dominated by Evangelicals. It's hard to answer the question because "Evangelical" covers a spectrum. Further complicating matters, you don't have correlation like you do with Mormonism. For example, one Southern Baptist church can be very different from another Southern Baptist church that's just a few miles down the road.

But when I hear Evangelicals talking outside of church it seems to be mainly a message of hate, discrimination, shaming, and exclusion.

I don't get it. What's the deal? Are the bad eggs getting all of the sound bites, or is that really the undercurrent of Evangelicalism? All of the love thy enemy, forgive seven times seventy, walk an extra mile, turn the other cheek stuff that Jesus seemed to have taught as his central tenets gets very little air time these days.

That gets complicated too. You mentioned that in your experience there wasn't much doctrine, just lots of name dropping of Jesus. When you do that, people walk away from church with whatever they brought in with them. Maybe people would do that even in an environment with lots of doctrine and cries for repentance, human nature and all that.

I'm just saying that if someone goes into an Evangelical service with bigotry in their heart, a generic sermon that thanks Jesus for every mundane thing in life that looks or feels pretty isn't going to do much to change their bigoted views.

I hope it goes without saying, but most of what I'm writing about isn't specific to just the Evangelical church or even just churches in general. That said, in modern times people don't appear to go to church to be challenged, they go to church to be validated.

We also operate with our respective lenses. If there's hatred in our heart, even the best sermon has to filter through that lens. For many, all religion does is solidify people in their current views. They brought bigotry to the table, they interpret their religion through that lens, and now their interpretation of their religion creates a feedback loop. They project their own beliefs into their religion, then indirectly appeal to their own authority all while believing they're appealing to the authority of their religion.

Another thing that surprised me; church members are really honored to be able to volunteer for the church. Like there are waiting lists for volunteer parking lot attendants, door greeters and random stuff like that. And the people are genuinely happy to be picked to help out.

Hagoth already alluded to this but in the Evangelical churches I've attended, there could be a congregation of several hundred people and parking lot attendant is one of only a handful of jobs that are available to the average congregant. With the way Mormonism is set up, everyone gets assigned to a calling and which calling you receive can become your status in the community.

Now imagine a mega church (one that requires parking lot attendants) of 500 attending members. They only need 10 people to be parking lot attendants. When that's one of the only jobs available to you for group status, the parking lot attendant is like being a bishop in a Mormon church. Supply, demand.

Plus, as pointed out already, there's a world of difference between being an actual volunteer for something and being volunteered for something. I bet if the Evangelical mega church told 10 randos they had to be a parking lot attendant for a few years then there'd be lots of grumbling among the people that got the assignment.

Now disregard all that and consider the following... what if they had a special assignment in our church for people to go outside and police the parking lot during Elders Quorum meetings. Knife fights might break out for a chance to do that. Maybe Evangelical parking lot attendants are PIMO and are looking for any way they can to get out of another crap-@$$ Evangelical meeting.

[Hagoth]

I'm just saying that if someone goes into an Evangelical service with bigotry in their heart, a generic sermon that thanks Jesus for every mundane thing in life that looks or feels pretty isn't going to do much to change their bigoted views.

... in modern times people don't appear to go to church to be challenged, they go to church to be validated.

Excellent observations. Church. and the Bible, and Jesus to some degree are used as black boxes that spit out whatever answer you need from them. Insert your prejudice in one side and it pops out the other side with God's endorsement.

[msnobody]

Evangelicals. What do they really teach and believe?

We have a friend that introduced us to expository teaching and he has a very in-depth study on reformed theology which can be found here https://www.thbg.org/?T4 and I would highly recommend it if someone was interested in this depth of study. Scroll down to Theology under Studies.

Very short version is that God gave us free choice and we rebelled and sinned against God. God in his mercy, who must one day judge sin because he is a holy God, came to us in the person of Jesus to save us from himself (his future wrath). He provided Jesus as the propitiation for sin. He credits Jesus righteousness to the regenerate person’s account. Jesus took on our sin. He who started a work in us, will complete it and is able to keep us from stumbling and present us to the Father blameless. I’ve recently come to realize that when we feel the crushing weight of our sin, it is an act of God’s mercy to draw us to himself.

It’s late and I’m tired and have to work tomorrow, so this is just a general statement and probably not well articulated.

An interesting read may be Michael Heiser’s The Unseen Realm, a book I have enjoyed recently.

[Hagoth]

It’s late and I’m tired and have to work tomorrow, so this is just a general statement and probably not well articulated.

Actually, very well articulated. Welcome to NOM, msnobody!

I think I have a pretty good grasp on Evangelicalism as a doctrine. I'm more confused about Evangelicalism as a social movement.

[msnobody]

It’s late and I’m tired and have to work tomorrow, so this is just a general statement and probably not well articulated.

Actually, very well articulated. Welcome to NOM, msnobody!

I think I have a pretty good grasp on Evangelicalism as a doctrine. I'm more confused about Evangelicalism as a social movement.

Thank you. Me too. I bet much of the way people behave is not pleasing to God.

[Just This Guy]

I know of evangelical churches that people in DW's family go to that are very much the stereotypical evangelical. There are anti-abortion sermons, anti-intellectual* sermons, Pro "tradtional USA" stuff etc. They even get into the evangelical ultra conservative women's clothing stuff.

Then I know others like Hagoth's where they are extraordinarily bland. Just feel good Jesus.

I don't have any data, bout out of the larger/mega evangelical churches, how many of them are more hard line on their rhetoric? From what I have seen, the larger the church, the more dumbed down the rhetoric. Maybe to attract a large crowd, you need to keep it as basic as possible to appeal to the widest audience?

Or maybe I just don't have that much experience with evangelical churches. That's also a possibility.


*This always struck me as odd because they are in a university town where during the school year, 30% of the town are students. There are a LOT of academics in the town.