NOM

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:06 am

Yeah, that seems to be how it goes in a state where a theocracy pretty much controls both the government and the press...

Exactly. LDS-Inc. controls the government in Utah. Which is why President Newsroom's statement along the lines of: "We're a religion and don't really have the ability to investigate such things..." is a complete joke.

They have Kirton|McKonkie (A giant legal team) at their beck and call. I have no doubt that many folks in law enforcement are in their pocket as well. All they would have to do is "suggest" that they really wanted an investigation, and "investigators" all over in the theocracy would volunteer all their time and talents to do whatever LDS-Inc. asked. Their completely cowardly newsroom statement is just more plausible deniability to protect the corporation.


The truth is: LDS-Inc. just wants this all to go away. The end, full stop.


Another sad truth is: Mr. Bishop is likely just the tip of the iceberg.

Not only is the Church statement a complete admission that nobody in the Church has any spirit of discernment, it is also a complete abdication of the Church's responsibility to look after the welfare of their members.

Whenever the Church image comes into conflict with the welfare of the members, the Church image always wins, hands down!

And not only that, what is this about sitting back and waiting to see what happens in the courts?

The Church has its own court system, in case it forgot.

And the bottom line is that when the Church wants somebody excommunicated, it will do so on the slimmest evidence and speculation.

But when the Church doesn't want somebody excommunicated, it will sit back and leave it to the courts to make the determination for them.

I am calling bullshit on this!

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... ident.html

This Deseret News article is schizophrenic. They are more than happy to paint the victim as not credible, but the quote from the County attorney is quite strong. I'm frankly surprised it made it in the same article.

"I have no reason to doubt the victim’s disclosure, and would have likely prosecuted Mr. Bishop but for the expiration of the statute of limitations," deputy Utah County attorney David Sturgill said in a message to University police. The statute of limitations for rape expires after four years.

After reading that, I feel like the church's response is even more reprehensible. They say they don't have investigative power and that it should be left to the legal system. Well, here's your catalyst, church. But for the statute of limitations, the Utah County attorney says that there is sufficient evidence to prosecute Bishop. Such moral cowards.

Bishop adamantly denied the allegations through his son, Gregory Bishop, who questioned the woman's credibility, saying she has accused 10 other men of sexual assault, sexual harassment or assault without charges being filed and has sought cash settlements in other cases.

If this is true, it does compromise the credibility of the accuser, however seriously accusations must always be taken. If this is untrue, it is a vicious and cowardly blow against a victim of sexual assault. Anybody know how credible the son’s claims are?

Regardless, the Church has not handled this well, and has certainly shown God isn’t telling them what really happened.

Okay, the SL Trib and KUTV both have articles out citing BYU police reports. They interviewed him in December 2017, and he admitted to the police, asking her to expose her breasts at the MTC in a private room. His further denials mean shit to me.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/03/22/ ... police-say

http://kutv.com/news/local/lds-official ... e-mtc-room

IT_Veteran wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:44 pm

Okay, the SL Trib and KUTV both have articles out citing BYU police reports. They interviewed him in December 2017, and he admitted to the police, asking her to expose her breasts at the MTC in a private room. His further denials mean shit to me.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/03/22/ ... police-say

http://kutv.com/news/local/lds-official ... e-mtc-room

Holy crap! This makes President Newsroom’s statement look even worse.

wtfluff wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:29 am

"We're a religion and don't really have the ability to investigate such things..." is a complete joke.

Yet they investigated Simon Southerton all the way back to high school on the other side of the planet looking for dirt on him.

If this woman had gone to the BYU\ Provo police in 1984, do you think they would have done anything? My bet is No.

The hits keep coming. She reported it to her bishop in 1987. Any guesses as to what he told her?

But the bishop, who asked not to be named, said in an interview with The Tribune that he didn’t believe her, nor did he tell any superiors.

”I felt the allegations were groundless,” he recalled this week. “They were so farfetched and not internally logical.”

It takes a lot of vetting for a man to be approved for a position like MTC president, the Mormon lay leader said, “which made her story very hard to believe.”

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/03/22/ ... olice-say/

IT_Veteran wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:21 pm

The hits keep coming. She reported it to her bishop in 1987. Any guesses as to what he told her?

But the bishop, who asked not to be named, said in an interview with The Tribune that he didn’t believe her, nor did he tell any superiors.

”I felt the allegations were groundless,” he recalled this week. “They were so farfetched and not internally logical.”

It takes a lot of vetting for a man to be approved for a position like MTC president, the Mormon lay leader said, “which made her story very hard to believe.”

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/03/22/ ... olice-say/

Everyone - take note, if you go to your bishop to talk about how you’ve been abused, your judge in Israel with the power of discernment may not believe or help you. The Church acted completely inappropriately from the very beginning in this story, at every level, at every juncture, and at every step along the way.

In the transcript, I really picked up on this part... I think it isn't just him it is pretty widespread and covered up by "members in the club" there is more digging to do and hopefully this becoming public will help more people abused by the system come forward. As to rape... well it might not be physical rape but he certainly emotionally and spiritually raped her.

From the transcript:

In a position to ... let me tell you some of the things that you did in MTC, and I
need closure, I'm not angry but I am a broken woman because of the things that
you did. Okay one of the things you did, what you told me, that you and other
leaders, and I didn't know what leaders meant at the time, would go to a place,
and I don't know if it was a hot tub or a hot springs, in Wyoming. Did you
remember that?

Joseph Bishop: No.

Had that ever happened? Why would you tell me that then?

Joseph Bishop: I don't know.

Okay. There was woman in the hot tub, or at the springs or whatever with you
and these other people who took her bikini top off. You don't remember that?

Joseph Bishop: I had an experience similar to that, but it wasn't in a hot tub.

What was it in? What was it?

Joseph Bishop: She, well it was in Utah, it wasn't in Wyoming.

Do I have my areas mixed up?

Joseph Bishop: Probably. Because that's only, it did happen.

But that did happen, oh, so maybe it was Utah, okay. How about this one. You
told me that ...

Joseph Bishop: Was I trying to titillate you?

(f'ing sicko) as far as I am concerned.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:15 am

IT_Veteran wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:21 pm

The hits keep coming. She reported it to her bishop in 1987. Any guesses as to what he told her?

But the bishop, who asked not to be named, said in an interview with The Tribune that he didn’t believe her, nor did he tell any superiors.

”I felt the allegations were groundless,” he recalled this week. “They were so farfetched and not internally logical.”

It takes a lot of vetting for a man to be approved for a position like MTC president, the Mormon lay leader said, “which made her story very hard to believe.”

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/03/22/ ... olice-say/

Everyone - take note, if you go to your bishop to talk about how you’ve been abused, your judge in Israel with the power of discernment may not believe or help you. The Church acted completely inappropriately from the very beginning in this story, at every level, at every juncture, and at every step along the way.

I think most of us have probably already come to a place where we know that this is the attitude of believing church members--that God has picked the leaders, so we should trust them. I mean, the attitude is cannonized:

Wilford Woodruff - Official Declaration 1 wrote:The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.

But even knowing that this is the internalized, default position, the statements from this woman's old bishop that he just didn't believe her because she was talking about the MTC president are jaw dropping. His lack of care for one of his congregants in deference to the machine is disgusting. Do you think he told her that he didn't believe her and that he wasn't going to tell anyone? I doubt it. I'm sure he spoke to her in sweet, sympathetic tones, and then left her dangling. Of course she didn't stick around in the church.

But before I get to far ahead of myself, I should thank President Newsroom for reminding us that she's not a member anymore, so we shouldn't trust her either.

So I heard on the news last night, that this was never meant to be leaked, and she is looking to sue whomever leaked it, did I hear that wrong.

I assumed she gave it to Mormon leaks.

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