NOM

This page is mocking the concept but it shows how the 2nd coming to Missouri was on the minds of Mormons a lot:

http://redeemjacksoncounty.com/

As a kid in the 80s its all we talked about. In seminary, SS and firesides the "signs of the times" was talked about weekly. The church was definitely a doomsday cult.

One of my biggest shelf items was when I realized that not only is Jesus dead and not coming back, but if Jesus was coming back it sure as hell wouldn't be to freakin' Missouri.

The two biggest prophecies about the 2nd coming was that it was imminent 2,000 years ago and that the world was going to become so wicked. Even with a few despots in power, the human condition is better than it's ever been, by far.

Anyway, Why is it hardly mentioned any more? The church is painted into a corner with it. The 2nd coming is the only possible end game for the church so when it never happens, how will they try and change it?

Spicy McHaggis wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:38 pm

The two biggest prophecies about the 2nd coming was that it was imminent 2,000 years ago and that the world was going to become so wicked. Even with a few despots in power, the human condition is better than it's ever been, by far.

This is so true. I can never take anyone seriously at Church who says the world is getting more wicked.

Seems to me that in overall Christendom people talk less about the Second Coming than they did when I was a kid. People who talk about it are regarded as crazy, and the last thing the Church wants to do is become financially transparent, and the second last thing it wants to do is look crazy (which is kind of hard for a Church started by a sexual predator polygamist treasure hunter who claimed to translate gold plates with magic rocks and ripped off Masonic secret rites and pulled crazy stuff out of his butt on a regular basis to try and impress his followers).

I think it's a cyclical thing. It's harped on for years and then I think everyone gets a little embarrassed when it's clear it ain't coming, so people stop talking about it for a while. But given enough time, it will get play again like it has for 2000 years. It's just such a good tool for scaring folks into repentenance!

At least the prepppers haven't given up on jesus coming back and slaughtering everyone but themselves. It's a pretty decent business for some of them.


Happy happy!

TestimonyLost wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:16 am

I think it's a cyclical thing. It's harped on for years and then I think everyone gets a little embarrassed when it's clear it ain't coming, so people stop talking about it for a while. But given enough time, it will get play again like it has for 2000 years. It's just such a good tool for scaring folks into repentenance!

Every generation of Christians has two common traits:

1. They believe the Second Coming is near
2. They are wrong about the date of the Second Coming

The "Left Behind" books by Jenkins and LaHaye were published starting in 1995 and the last book came out in 2007. These books are becoming progressively more dated. The first book was published during the first term of President Bill Clinton and barely had heard of this "internet" thing as well as so many profound and prosaic events since then. I watched the execrable movie version with Kirk Cameron and it was astonishingly stupid.

The last lucid pronouncement of Thomas Monson appears to be "Hasten the Work" which is totally different than Spencer Kimball's "Lengthen Your Stride". I am looking forward to whatever Nelson/Oaks/Holland/Bednar comes up with to further keep us interested in the Second Coming.

Yeh...ok.....I once owned copies of "Prophets, Principles & National Survival". Also, most of the dooms-day Skousen stuff, even Julie Rowes book, and a few others.

I remember back in the 80s during my mission days where we were FRANTIC to get the word out--Repent because the end is coming--ITS JUST AROUND THE CORNER!

About 2 years ago with the Rowe thing there was a massive Chicken Little scenario that played out amongst the preppers, and we still have the "One World Government" idea that is promoted and turned into the "Church will save the Constitution from destruction."

I personal believe there are wicked people in high places doing things they shouldn't. I think there is truth to a lot of those claims--but you find out about those things from hard cold scholarship and investigation with an open and discerning mind--YOU DO NOT look in a rock, or consult dooms-day prophecies from those who DID look into rocks.

This whole second-coming is a joke to me. If there is a Jesus and he does "come back"...hurray! But, using that worn out idea as a way to strike fear has lost most of its steam IMHO.

The concept of 2nd coming is really interesting in 19th century burned over district theology. There were 2 main philosophical tracks that the leaders of protestant and restorationist sects played around with: pre-millenialism (christ will come back before the millennium starts and things will get nasty first) and post-millenialism (since christ established his gospel on the earth, the millennium has already started and things will continually get better as people accept the gospel message). My understanding after reading the Given's book on Parley Pratt is that this was argued about early on between Alexander Campbell and Sidney Rigdon, with Sidney and his followers and Pratt being in the pre-millenial track and subsequently joining mormonism. Smith's prophecies relied on pre-millenial thought to establish the restoration message and bring people into a frenzied spirit of gathering. "Gather to Zion and the stakes as place of refuge because the United States is about to burn down!" was the early rallying cry. "Warn your neighbor!". Turns out that post-millenial thought is more aligned with reality as we see the worlds living conditions and major metrics like poverty, disease and violence drop significantly over the last thousand years.

I'm definitely in the post-millenial (albeit figuratively, not literally) camp now that I have seen the data.

It seems that Boyd Packer thinks this is the case too, seeing as how he took a major step to back off apocolyptic rhetoric in his October 2011 general conference talk to the youth telling them they will live to raise their grandkids and great grandkids.

I think the year 2000 also had a big although subtle impact on Mormon thinking. It was like there was this big build up because of revelations about the 7th seal being opened as the millennium changed and when that didn't occur many, including those in leadership had to step back and take a hard look at the D&C dates given regarding the Savior's birth, etc.

The other problem related to talk about the Apocalypse is that younger people have a tendency to ask themselves, "If the 2nd Coming is just around the corner, why bother getting myself educated, married, starting a family?" After observing this kind of thinking in the youth, the church realized it was cutting it's own throat because young people were less prepared for life and were paying much less tithing than they would normally be capable of.

I remember when Spencer W. Kimball gave a conference address stating that the youth of the church should prepare for life as if things were going to continue this way far into the future. And similar to the above mentioned Packer talk, he stated that those of our generation would have plenty of time to raise our children and see our grandchildren raised.

In many ways this was a great comfort to me but in others it made me think, "Why weren't you telling us this long ago when it would have been even more helpful? What is really going on here?" But as with many questions I had at that time, I just put it on the shelf and kept on keeping on.

One reason the church may keep quiet about the 2nd Coming these days is because they haven't got a clue as to when it might occur. They are totally flying blind here. So much for modern prophets.

Palerider wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:13 am

One reason the church may keep quiet about the 2nd Coming these days is because they haven't got a clue as to when it might occur. They are totally flying blind here. So much for modern prophets.

They should just out the magic "rock" and look...I mean, why the lack of knowledge?...its right there!

Oh wait....they don't use that any more...right?

Palerider wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:13 am

The other problem related to talk about the Apocalypse is that younger people have a tendency to ask themselves, "If the 2nd Coming is just around the corner, why bother getting myself educated, married, starting a family?" After observing this kind of thinking in the youth, the church realized it was cutting it's own throat because young people were less prepared for life and were paying much less tithing than they would normally be capable of.

This is true. A friend's daughter believed she didn't need an education because the 2nd coming was right around the corner. I know of a few people who didn't plan for retirement for the same reason.

Spicy McHaggis wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:20 pm

Palerider wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:13 am

The other problem related to talk about the Apocalypse is that younger people have a tendency to ask themselves, "If the 2nd Coming is just around the corner, why bother getting myself educated, married, starting a family?" After observing this kind of thinking in the youth, the church realized it was cutting it's own throat because young people were less prepared for life and were paying much less tithing than they would normally be capable of.

This is true. A friend's daughter believed she didn't need an education because the 2nd coming was right around the corner. I know of a few people who didn't plan for retirement for the same reason.

That just might be it. "By their fruits (or lack of them) ye shall know them." If they live a distorted belief, distorted actions come. This is actually the evil part of Christianity, IMO. The idea of, "Let's just let the world go to hell - and let Jesus come and clean up the mess." It's the opposite of God, IMO - because it's not taking responsibility. Heaven's reward fallacy - is actually a common cognitive distortion and it's in the church's name "latter day."

Also, I think deep down, maybe more people (including those deciding which teachings get pushed and which don't) realize that Jesus himself explained that there was not going to be a 2nd coming - and even if there were, most people wouldn't even know it if it hit them upside the head unless they were ready and open to it... "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." -Luke 17:20-21

Corsair wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:14 am

1. They believe the Second Coming is near
2. They are wrong about the date of the Second Coming

Even in my TBM days, the dates were weird to me - not just Noah being 950 years old... But I asked the Doctrine teacher, "If Jesus came in the meridian of time, which was 2,000 years ago and Adam and Eve were about 4,000 years before Jesus... then we have another 2,000 years before we're in the last days." Of course, this didn't matter - because meridian doesn't necessarily mean middle - unless you take things literally, but it can also mean climax or most important part. But as we know, some people really get hung up on taking everything from scripture word for word, rather than symbolically.

Anyway, I believe Jesus - about the kingdom (realm/experience) of God being within - not something to watch for outside of us - so dates are really insignificant. Now is all there is - in a way eternal - beyond time.

I think it would be cool if Christ literally came back and cleaned up this world. That being said, I think the Luke 17 passage is a more likely meaning. The Kingdom is within/among us. Like the GA's and Peter and Paul, and Joseph and Brigham, I'm flying blind. But I'm not trying to use the 2nd coming to threaten or cajole anybody into doing anything.

How does doomsday thinking align with the goals of the church?
1) it causes people to prepare food, water, and other needs for the millennium.
2) it supports many businesses, provides more jobs...eventually leads to more tithing revenue.
3) lends certain levels of credibility and support for church leaders and the prophet. I mean, dead prophets are behind all of this.
4) it reminds people that God is still coming back.
These are all positives for the church. It is only when the Ammon Bundy group gets involved, the church starts to squirm.

After visiting the website mentioned above (Redeem Zion) I couldn't find any active links stating what the individual who created the site was planning on doing to redeem zion. It just leaves you hanging. Lots of bravado and no suggestion or clue as to where they're going from here.
I wonder do these people even know that the Missouri temple site is rightfully owned by the Community of Christ and that they already have an edifice of worship built there? Furthermore, the LDS church has gobs of money that they can and probably have offered to buy the temple lot back from the C of C and that they have probably rebuffed any attempt by the LDS to purchase the lot.

It must secretly stick in the LDS craw knowing that they can't get their grimy mitts on that land. I know they have attempted, with some success, to buy large tracts of land surrounding it but have failed miserably to acquire the temple lot itself.

Finally, the website states that Zion must be built in Missouri in order to usher in the 2nd Coming of the Lord. As if this can't happen without the city of zion being built first. How arrogant and mislead can people get? There is nothing in the Biblical scriptures to support such a claim. The fact that Zion will be redeemed (in Jerusalem) at some point is not in dispute but one has to rely on phony LDS "scripture" to support the where and when they propose. What a sad little group they are and what a tremendous waste of time, energy and materials this church imposes on it's mislead membership.

Palerider wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:13 am

I think the year 2000 also had a big although subtle impact on Mormon thinking.

Yes^ I was in seminary during the late 90's, and the 2nd coming was such a "thing" then. I didn't even realize I hadn't heard anything about it for so long until I read the title of this thread.

Palerider wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:13 am

One reason the church may keep quiet about the 2nd Coming these days is because they haven't got a clue as to when it might occur. They are totally flying blind here. So much for modern prophets.

Yep! Also nowadays anything they said would be blasted all over social media. Pre internet, they could say stuff and only TBMs would hear or care.

My MIL said we had to get married fast, everyone said it btw, in 1998.
MIL was so convinced that she even made contingencyplans for my then underage SIL´s.
And we stocked, and stocked.
Then Y2K came and went............

Family history, indexing, temple work, basically all the stuff the church does to give you busy work has taken the place of the old religious zeal of talking about a guy who will be coming back but never shows up. I guess we will have to just rely on josephs encounter with him (all of them) to keep us going.

He could just be visiting his sheep from a different fold and just cant break away from his god duties. Im sure he has a lot to do. Visit mary for mothers day and all that stuff.

Meilingkie wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Then Y2K came and went............

Aren't you forgetting about the how the world ended or are you simply indulging that fantasy of life somehow continuing post-midnight on Jan 31, 1999?

moksha wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:26 am

Aren't you forgetting about the how the world ended or are you simply indulging that fantasy of life somehow continuing post-midnight on Jan 31, 1999?

Yes my favorite penguin, we´ve all been uploaded into a Matrix