Concubines,

[20/20hind]

"Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines".

Whats the difference between wives and concubines.?

[LSOF]

[Affects best Utah accent.]

The dictionary defines "concubine" as "a sexual partner, especially a woman, to whom one is not or cannot be married." It also lists an alternate definition: "A woman who lives with a man, but who is not a wife."

[Red Ryder]

A besty with benefits.
A sex buddy.
A glory holy partner.
A celestial sperm catcher.
An excuse to bang in the barn.
An excuse to bang behind your wives back.
An excuse to bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and pop the priesthood.
A women's calling?
Who was Fanny Alger?
A mans eternal reward?
A body to cloth in polygamy panties?
An epilogue to Netflix and chill?
A pretty teenager in the eyes of Joseph Smith?

[Red Ryder]

Whats the difference between wives and concubines.?

In Joseph Smith's case it's their (teen)age!

[20/20hind]

A besty with benefits.
A sex buddy.
A glory holy partner.
A celestial sperm catcher.
An excuse to bang in the barn.
An excuse to bang behind your wives back.
An excuse to bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and pop the priesthood.
A women's calling?
Who was Fanny Alger?
A mans eternal reward?
A body to cloth in polygamy panties?
An epilogue to Netflix and chill?
A pretty teenager in the eyes of Joseph Smith?

Love the list. But have a hernia now from laughing to much.

The womens calling..

I could just see this role out in the current church.

Sacrament meeting;

We have called the following individuals to fulfill callings in the church.

We have released sister spinster from the nursury and called her to be the concubine to brother pornstachio. We will set her apart after church.

And all who are worthy can attend their celestial marriage this Wednesday at the south jordon temple. They will depart on thier honymoon the following day to brother Meldrums book of mormon history tour. They are anticipating visiting the lost city of zarahemla located on the banks of the Mississippi river. And a short trip to the mound where the kinderhook plates where found.

[Palerider]

Biblically a concubine didn't have the same legal status as a wife. When Hagar was presented by Sarah to Abraham she was presented as a concubine only for the purpose of providing an heir. So as things progressed and Ishmael was born and Hagar began to despise Sarah, Abraham said in essence, "She's your handmaid...take her and do as you see fit."

This is something that could not have occurred if Hagar had enjoyed the full legal status as a wife.

It's also something that the LDS faith quietly tiptoes around because according to the Biblical scriptures, Hagar was foisted upon Abraham as opposed to the LDS perspective of the Lord commanding Abraham to take Hagar as a wife. That proposition is only supported by the pseudo-scriptures (D&C) written by Joseph Smith for his own purposes.

[Red Ryder]

So it is a calling?

[moksha]

Concubines tend to require lower maintenance and have fewer headaches at bedtime.

[Not Buying It]

"Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines".

Whats the difference between wives and concubines.?

In reality, all of Joseph Smith's "wives" other than Emma were more concubines than wives. They had no legal status. He didn't support them, with the exception of the housemaids and foster daughters that he was supporting as housemaids and foster daughters. For the most part, they got nothing from him except one thing - sex.

It burns me up to hear people go on about Joseph's "reluctance" to practice polygamy. It upsets me when people try and normalize and legitimize these relationships. In a true marriage, it isn't hidden, it isn't secret, there is a shared life that Joseph never had with his plural wives. The way Joseph Smith practiced plural marriage was a mockery of marriage.

So what's the difference between a wife and a concubine? To Joseph Smith, there was no difference.

[Corsair]

So it is a calling?

I don't think the current version of MLS includes "Concubine" in the list of official callings. In any case, as a "calling" it's more like a "booty call".

[GoodBoy]

Jacob 3:5

Behold, the Lamanites your brethren, whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins, are more righteous than you; for they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father—that they should have save it were one wife, and concubines they should have none, and there should not be whoredoms committed among them.

Joseph forgot that God had outlawed what he was now trying to justify.

[20/20hind]

8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.

Verse 8 from 132

I can't think of any other thing that has caused more confusion and caos for the church and its membership than polygamy.

It was denied but secretly practiced. Its practice was denied to converts in England and when they arrive its full steam ahead with polygamy.

Then their forced to sort of stop publicly. But the higher up church leaders still did it, which lead to the 2nd manifesto.

That lead to fundamental off shoots that practice it.

Then in the church today you get women in wards saying they will never allow it in the afterlife and the strange dudes in the ward are all totally thinking polygamy will be practiced again in the afterlife..

The church just wallows around in this polygamy abyss. The best they can come up with..(we will have to wait and have God work it out).

The church just totally avoids and hides the women who were concubines to Joseph and the the others. They build up Joseph's and Emma's relationship like it was some fairy tale love affair. When actually it was probably kind of a shi&ty marriage. How could it have been healthy at all with his concubines?

132 is confusing, it's stupid, if that revelation came from god, he is one confusing sob supreme being.

But that's just my opinion.






I

[John Hamer]

In Greek and Roman traditions, concubine has the additional implication of person who is a slave.

This was still relevant in Joseph Smith's day because there was slavery in the US, including in Missouri. At the end of his life Joseph Smith was thinking strongly about relocating to Texas which was also a slave territory (and Brigham Young went out of his way to make slavery legal in Utah Territory).

I think it's probable that Joseph Smith is thinking about slave (African American) women and Lamanite (Native American) women when he's talking about concubines.

[20/20hind]

In Greek and Roman traditions, concubine has the additional implication of person who is a slave.

This was still relevant in Joseph Smith's day because there was slavery in the US, including in Missouri. At the end of his life Joseph Smith was thinking strongly about relocating to Texas which was also a slave territory (and Brigham Young went out of his way to make slavery legal in Utah Territory).

I think it's probable that Joseph Smith is thinking about slave (African American) women and Lamanite (Native American) women when he's talking about concubines.

Interesting, I didn't realize he was looking at Texas. So (wives) would have meant white women of the church and (concubines) African and Native American women?

Also, I really enjoy the pod casts you are on. Especially IOT

[2bizE]

Are concubines always women?
It would be nice to have a concubine handy if needed...for example, if you take the little blue pill too early and the wife is not around to help out.

[John Hamer]

Are concubines always women?
It would be nice to have a concubine handy if needed...for example, if you take the little blue pill too early and the wife is not around to help out.

Concubinus in Latin is a young, male slave used sexually by his owner/master. Concubina refers to a female slave used sexually by her owner/master.

[Spicy McHaggis]

I think deep down inside most TBM women know the way JS set up polygamy there was no difference between concubines and wives. I've seen the pain on too many faces when the subject comes up of how their husbands will have multiple wives in heaven. They may realize they will be just one of the concubines.

[alas]

Are concubines always women?
It would be nice to have a concubine handy if needed...for example, if you take the little blue pill too early and the wife is not around to help out.

Concubinus in Latin is a young, male slave used sexually by his owner/master. Concubina refers to a female slave used sexually by her owner/master.

In the Bible, Shadrack, Meshad, and Abendigo (and probably Daniel but he was not mentioned in that story) were taken as slaves when the Jews were taken captive into Babbalon and they were turned over to the palace eunuch. The palace eunuch was the person in charge of wives, concubines, and boy toys. So, they were slaves, used sexually by the king. Makes them concubines. But the Bible never explains this small fact because of homophobia and wanting to paint these Jewish boys as super righteous in keeping Jewish dietary laws. It seems to me that the early Jews were fine with same sex concubinage, because they just seemed to take in stride that Daniel and his three friends were raised in the palace and educated and close friends with the king because they were concubines to the king.

[Palerider]

In the Bible, Shadrack, Meshad, and Abendigo (and probably Daniel but he was not mentioned in that story) were taken as slaves when the Jews were taken captive into Babbalon and they were turned over to the palace eunuch. The palace eunuch was the person in charge of wives, concubines, and boy toys. So, they were slaves, used sexually by the king. Makes them concubines. But the Bible never explains this small fact because of homophobia and wanting to paint these Jewish boys as super righteous in keeping Jewish dietary laws. It seems to me that the early Jews were fine with same sex concubinage, because they just seemed to take in stride that Daniel and his three friends were raised in the palace and educated and close friends with the king because they were concubines to the king.

Alas,
Do you have a reference on this or is this some conjecture being put forth? Palace eunuchs probably had numerous responsibilities that didn't necessarily entail training young men for the purposes you describe. Just curious where this notion comes from.

[Palerider]

In the Bible, Shadrack, Meshad, and Abendigo (and probably Daniel but he was not mentioned in that story) were taken as slaves when the Jews were taken captive into Babbalon and they were turned over to the palace eunuch. The palace eunuch was the person in charge of wives, concubines, and boy toys. So, they were slaves, used sexually by the king. Makes them concubines. But the Bible never explains this small fact because of homophobia and wanting to paint these Jewish boys as super righteous in keeping Jewish dietary laws. It seems to me that the early Jews were fine with same sex concubinage, because they just seemed to take in stride that Daniel and his three friends were raised in the palace and educated and close friends with the king because they were concubines to the king.

Alas,
Do you have a reference on this or is this some conjecture being put forth? Palace eunuchs probably had numerous responsibilities that didn't necessarily entail training young men for the purposes you describe. Just curious where this notion comes from.

Did some research here and it seems it is a distinct possibility that Daniel and his friends could have been castrated as part of their induction into palace life. And some may infer that being a person of pleasure to the king was also a possibility although it certainly isn't an unavoidable conclusion in all cases. Regarding these young Jewish princes there doesn't seem to be any conclusive evidence either way.